rec.autos.simulators

by **John Bodi** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

My best advice:

FORGET about the manual clutch -- use the auto-clutch feature and stick with
manual shifting. Your brakes are FAR more important than the clutch EVER
will be, and the manual clutch is a dubious waste of time if you don't have
a third pedal in place. You need to be able to feather the brakes (i.e.,
apply partial brakes) while entering a turn, and you also need to be able to
use partial brakes (rather than full brakes) without relying on ABS to fake
it for you. I only use low ABS to simply help prevent unwanted lockup --
without any pressure feedback, it's virtually impossible to feather the
brakes consistently every time, and the low ABS setting helps prevent lockup
during those times when I get a little too deep into the brake pedal
(especially in panic situations).

You really need to stay with the manual shifting, because with the right
gearing, you can use drivetrain braking to help slow you down -- on the last
big left-hander at Castlegreen, for example, if I'm not coming in too hot ro
attempting a pass, I use a quick downshift to slow me down, rather than
touching the brakes. This gets me through the corner much faster, scrubbing
off less speed, and since I've got to downshift anyway for the exit, I'm
already in the right gear to accelerate away every time through.

Manual shifting is VERY important for this very reason. Manual braking is
THE MOST important aspect, though, and settling for "digital" (on/off)
braking in favor of a clutch is NOT the way to go fast. The clutch feature
is nice if you happen to have a third pedal, and both my cars in real-life
have 5-speeds, so I really like a manual *** with a clutch, but in a sim
it's a bit of overkill, and I would NEVER give up a proportional brake pedal
in favor of a clutch.

Have I mentioned yet that I would forget about the clutch feature if I were
you? Just checking! <G>

Hope this helps!

-- John Bodin
Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Check out our sim site, too -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>thanks!
>I'm down to 1:43.96 :)
>I'm using low ABS and manual clutch (pedal)
>The microsoft FF wheel isn't very good for having the clutch as a button,
>because when you turn the wheel hard in either direction, its extremely
hard
>to hit the clutch and shift at the same time, while with the pedal its easy
>as pie, i just have to use a button for brakes (right now).

>> I won't post anybody else's records here, but these are the times I've
>> submitted for the CompuServe Viper Racing Club. We differentiate between
>> quick race (Q/S) and career mode, and we also track what level in career
>(to
>> enable us to compare basic upgrade levels), and we also allow hotlap
>> submissions with the GTSR "hack." FYI, I only use ABS on the lowest
>> level -- the auto-clutch and manual shift option seems to work very well;
>> I've never tried using a clutch, as the braking is the most critical part
>of
>> some turns, and strategic lockup is needed at times, which is defeated by
>> using full ABS support. I'm not the fastest person in the club, but I'm
>up
>> in the top 2-5 usually:

>> Viper Racing Club Hot Laps Chart 9-05-99

>> Bemidji

>> John Bodin 0:31.50 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 0:33.13 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 0:37.08 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Bemidji Reversed

>> John Bodin 0:32.94 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 0:35.98 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Castlegreen

>> John Bodin 1:14.43 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:16.97 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:28.86 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Castlegreen Reversed

>> John Bodin 1:24.19 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:29.68 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Dayton

>> John Bodin 0:53.63 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 0:55.12 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 0:58.54 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

>> Dayton Reversed

>> John Bodin 0:54.06 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 0:56.14 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Silverdale

>> John Bodin 0:53.93 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 0:56.75 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Silverdale Reversed

>> John Bodin 0:59.85 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:03.80 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Ridge Valley

>> John Bodin 1:22.30 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:23.96 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:27.96 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

>> Ridge Valley Reversed

>> John Bodin 1:41.64 Q/S ABS, Auto-Clutch

>> Sunset Mesa

>> John Bodin 1:57.45 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 2:24.32 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Sunset Mesa Reversed

>> John Bodin 2:03.31 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 2:26.73 Q/S Auto-Clutch

>> Dundas

>> John Bodin 1:28.86 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:40.91 Career/Club ABS, Auto-Clutch

>> Dundas Reversed

>> John Bodin 1:34.97 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

>> Rock Island

>> John Bodin 1:27.58 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch
>> John Bodin 1:28.92 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

by **John Bodi** » Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:00:00

You mean the esses near the bus stops and the water fountain? I do
occasionally drop a tire off the pavement through this section (most notably
at the fountain, where you can do so without getting into the grass.

-- JB

>yay, i'm down to 1:42.95
>I have a question for you guys though, in the esses, do you guys cut
accross
>at all? or just stay on the road?

by **Adria** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

that's where I have a problem...
On dundas (the main track i'm practicing on right now) I can win easily
under quick race under easy and normal mode, but under hard mode, i'm afraid
to brake deep like i usually do because i'll ram one of the ai cars and send
both of us into a spin. This causes my lap times to be slower and thus I
can't get to the front!

Guess I'm gonna get me a hotlapping setup...

- Show quoted text -

by **Adria** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

awww!! but the clutch pedal is ffffuuunnn!!
but, i'll try your advice.

I find that I get a better turn if I give it some gas mid turn to get the
back end a little lose, thus putting be in the right direction, rather than
going into the wall otherwise.

clutch, clutch, clutch, clutch! I'm gonna hook up another set of pedals to a
joystick card (i don't have any usb joysticks, the ms FF wasn't available in
usb when i bought it), so that i can have my clutch!

ok, so you want me to forget about the brake feature, got it!
j/k

only track time will tell..

- Show quoted text -

by **Adria** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

well, track time has told
I can upshift quicker than the computer does it, but downshifting is a
different story.
When approaching a turn I used to just nail the clutch, downshift to 3
(clutch still down), slam on the brakes, then when I was down to 100, 105
I'd let the clutch go. Doing that eliminated all engine braking. But, when
the computer does the clutch work for me, it goes through all the gears,
thus giving me engine braking and much shorter stopping distances.
My times have actually gone up by a second, but thats mostly because I'm not
quite comfortable with the auto-clutch setup yet. I think that once I'm
comfortable with it, i'll be quicker with the auto-clutch than without.

by **Adria** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

yep, those esses...
I take a uh...major shortcut...like over a big pile of grass...
Where the fountain and bus stop are, I just keep going straight (over the
grass) and end up in perfect position for the big left hand turn, with a
good amount of speed too.

by **Adria** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

the track has told some more:
I am much much smoother with the auto-clutch than when I was doin the clutch
work.
I am setting the car up very differently with the auto-clutch than without,
I'm dialing in a neutral --> slightly oversteering car.

by **John Bodi** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>> I enjoy hotlapping (or trying to, anyway) -- what I do is take a hotlap
>> setup, get to the point where I can be VERY consistent with it, and then
>try
>> to run different lines with it. Running different lines teaches you what
>> you need to know to avoid other cars, so it's good to know how to do
that.
>> <G>

>that's where I have a problem...
>On dundas (the main track i'm practicing on right now) I can win easily
>under quick race under easy and normal mode, but under hard mode, i'm
afraid
>to brake deep like i usually do because i'll ram one of the ai cars and
send
>both of us into a spin. This causes my lap times to be slower and thus I
>can't get to the front!

There are really two setup choices at Dundas -- use VERY little wing and
blow by the AI cars on the long straight stretch, or use a LOT of wing to
make your car faster and more stable (LOTS more stable) in the turns, which
will allow you to carry more speed through the turns and run the different
lines necessary to blow by the AI on the outside or inside. I think my race
setup at Dundas is typically a higher-downforce setup, but I try to make
sure that the AI can't run away from me on the straights.

- Show quoted text -

>> When I'm ready to race, I take my hotlap setup, and then "detune" it a
bit
>> (more wing, softer shock settings, etc.). When "detuning" a hotlap
setup,
>I
>> try to achieve stability and controllability over ultimate speed (or lap
>> speed). If I come up with a race setup that's a few seconds off my
>personal
>> best, but it's more controllable, I usually find that I can run rings
>around
>> the AI.

>> Hotlapping teaches you how to go fast, but the AI helps teach you how to
>> race. If you can't complete a race without ramming the AI cars (unless
>it's
>> a pileup situation that they've caused or such), then you're probably not
>> ready to race against humans. This is how I prepared for racing GPL
>online,
>> and while I've never been a spectacular performer, I've also never punted
>> anybody who was driving a good line, and I seldom get in anybody's way,
or
>> caused problems when I'm slower.

>Guess I'm gonna get me a hotlapping setup...

>> I just wish Viper Racing was as online-friendly as GPL. :-(

Darn good question -- I've raced Viper Racing on my local LAN, but never
online. I've heard that it doesn't do so well online, but I've never tested
it.

- Show quoted text -

by **John Bodi** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>yep, those esses...
>I take a uh...major shortcut...like over a big pile of grass...
>Where the fountain and bus stop are, I just keep going straight (over the
>grass) and end up in perfect position for the big left hand turn, with a
>good amount of speed too.

LOL! I don't think I've ever used this "line" through that corner (at least
not on purpose). With a good high-downforce setup, your car should be glued
to the track through the esses, and all you should have to do is gently
guide it through the sequence of turns. I can't recall what speed I'm able
to maintain through that segment, but it seems like do that segment
travelling in the 135 mph range, I think. I do know that I often use the
benefits of my higher-downforce setup to use that as a passing zone,
occasionally taking the AI on the outside line right at the fountain, so a
stable, controllable setup can be a real benefit.

-- JB

>> You mean the esses near the bus stops and the water fountain? I do
>> occasionally drop a tire off the pavement through this section (most
>notably
>> at the fountain, where you can do so without getting into the grass.

>> -- JB

by **Adria** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

If I actually went on the road through the esses, only coming off the road a
little bit, I can usually get through at around 145mph, sometimes even
150mph, but when i get up to the left hand turn i needa downshift to 5 to
stop myself from going off the road.
If I do the cut accros I can go up that left turn full throttle.
I'm using 65 wind up front, 50 in the back. So I guess I'm right in the
middle. Perhaps I'll give more wing a shot...

by **Eldre** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

writes:

This doesn't make sense. If the speed to go through the turn is 90, why are
there times when you can't get thru at 70?

Eldred

__
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

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remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Adria** » Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:00:00

??
that's not what i said, what i said was that when i was braking in the turn,
i could only get through at 70 because I was sliding, but when i braked
before the turn, i can get through at 90.
With auto-clutch that doesn't really effect the turn much, when i was using
manual clutch, the time i put it in 3rd had to be before the turn, otherwise
the back end would go out.

rec.autos.simulators

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good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?

good times in viper racing?