rec.autos.simulators

When CART was released before the V2x00 cards were available, so at the
time is was indeed Rendition Ready.  However there are still some issues
with backwards compatibility, and I agree that they should be addressed.
FYI this isn't limited to Rendition, as 3Dfx is having the same problems
with the Voodoo2 cards running Voodoo titles.

--
Eric T. Busch

So I get home with the new version of CART which clearly states that
it is rendition ready, install and low and behold the rendition
version don't work on my Stealth II.
I do some research and find CART is not compatiable with the rendition
2x00 chip. Hello! where does it say that on the box.
Has anyone seen 3d Blasters, Intense 3d and other cards based on the
R1000 chip for sale anymore, I certainly havent,  their old
technology, a new informed buyer will be picking up the newer Stealth
and Hercules cards, which funnily enough, co-insides with the
re-release of CART.

So who do I blame. Papyrus (Seirra) for wrongly claiming CART is
rendition ready (before someone asks it does not say with R1000 only,
so to the layman, rendition ready, is RENDITION READY).
or
Rendition for not making sure that titles using their chip set do
indeed work and have earned the right to carry the RR banner.

Another player rests in the wings. The file  icr2_v2k.zip which many
people (including myself) have used to get the R2x00 working with
CART. Who created this beta patch why was it never finished. Maybe I
should  blame them.

I have got it to work, (still some problems with "blurred" fences and
tyre marks in the distance),  by stuffing around and picking up info
here and there off the net but is it unreasonable to expect a title to
work as advertised, and if it does not to whom to you direct the
complaint, the chip maker, the developer, the producer, the retailer.

After seeing many posts about how to get this thing to work, I'm
amazed why Papyrus at the very least have not done anything to resolve
this issue. As I type, another poor sole is proberly buying CART and
rushing home only to find it wont work on their R2x00. They then post
for help. And the cycle continues.

-
Piper

Blame Sierra..Rendition told me it is not their problem anymore.
Also they do not seem to give much of a shit anyway as the only people to
answer questions about this are users.

Bottom line..ICR2 was great..still is..But it seems anything that has to do
with Rendition
always ends up being barely supported, left in beta, never finished, or
never comes out in the 1st place.
Im not buying a rendition card again.
Just my opinion..but why have one?
Support...haha!!
Speed....the V2200 is not any faster than the Voodoo1..not even close.
Price......Forget the v2200, a Voodoo2 cost the same.
2D...still is nothing to brag about...The S3 has the same 2D performance.
Yah Yah...a good 2D-3D solution shit...I heard it all..
The games supported are low 5 or 6, provided they work..

Icr2 Does not work on V2000 cards
N2 works great..But the Anti-Alasing looks like shit..really makes it look
bad.
Vquake...works good..never left beta.
Vquake2...cancelled in favor of a Full openGL port..it is an alpha right
now. Bet it will go beta and stay that way...It only gets about 22FPS
anyway on the HERC Thriller.
EF2000
I76-a year after release.
Any more not including D3D?

There...that should stir up a string :)

Hi Crimson,

I have ICR2 running nicely on my Stealth II (V2100) board - no problem at all,
except that little mirror thing, which I also cured by means of a little batch
file.

You really ought to try again. ICR2/3D (or CART, as it is now called) runs
perfectly and smooth on a V2100 board.

Achim

I had a stealth II for a day or so, and I can tell you that ICR2/CART
did not run perfectly on it.  That 'little mirror thing' is actually a
'major mirror thing' which renders the mirrors unuseable.  There is a
fix for the mirrors, but this causes another problem; the track takes
on a 'blurry' consistency at a distance, making it very difficult to
see corners until you are right on them.  I suppose not a big deal if
you know the track well, but even so it is quite ugly.

So anyway, I returned the stealth II, re-installed my stealth 2000,
and am running CART racing at 30fps in Win95.  Not as pretty as the
Rendition accelerated version, but not bad for what I paid for it
($9.99)

It is an interesting question, who is to blame.  Nobody in their right
mind would complain to Papy if they had just purchased ICR2 (a several
year old title) and not had their new rendition card work.  However,
they had just recently repackaged it as CART Racing, and may very well
have been aware that the new Rendition cards had trouble.  If so, I
think that they are responsible for making it work, as they could have
easily placed a warning on the box stating that only the V1000 cards
would work.  To put it another way, I think it should be treated as if
it were a new product, and if the V2x00 cards were out at release time
then they are responsible for fixing it.

Looking at the other piece, I think it is unreasonable to expect that
the new Rendition cards be 100% backward compatible with their older
siblings.  However, the advertising on the stealth II didn't really
indicate that there may be a problem.  I know the lawyerly types could
point out the places on the box which hinted that all games might not
work, but the strong implication was that I would not have a problem
with V1000 titles.  Some would call this effective advertising, I tend
to think of it as deceitful and unethical.  Unless I missed an
explicit disclaimer about some games not working, I think they should
be responsible for some portion of a fix, maybe perfecting the utility
that's already out there for fixing older rendition titles.

The last thing to consider is the fact that most consumers have a
simple remedy: return the game.  I'm sure that even stubborn retailers
like Best Buy will accept the return since the product is demonstrably
defective (it doesn't work as advertised.)  

Anyway, just my $0.02

Regards,

Dave

Then enjoy it because you are one of the few.
I can get it going like that as well, but the Anti alasing has to be turned
off and the***pit has a big hole in it and how you Drive without the
Mirrors?
:-)

I see it also and agree.

This, I believe, is exactly what has taken place. And as such Papy
should shoulder the responsibility of getting CART to work "correctly"
with the R2x00 cards.  

I'm not so sure about the logic of not "at the least" shooting for
backwards compatibility. Rendition games are not exactly prolific. Its
often said the titles will dictate who comes out on top with 3d cards
and this has been proven by 3dfx. The takeup of Voodoo 2 would be slow
to say the least if current Glide games just would not work. (at all).
I wonder how big Intel would be today if their processors were not
backward compatible.
It seems, I guess that rendition are shooting for good GL and D3D
support with occasional RR support.

True but a rather disappointing option. Good racing games are not
plentiful and when such a highly regarded title which even today can
hold its head high, and has mucho support from enthusiasts around the
world is forgotten by its developers? oh well.

<snip>
% It is an interesting question, who is to blame.  Nobody in their right
% mind would complain to Papy if they had just purchased ICR2 (a several
% year old title) and not had their new rendition card work.  However,
% they had just recently repackaged it as CART Racing, and may very well
% have been aware that the new Rendition cards had trouble.  If so, I
% think that they are responsible for making it work, as they could have
% easily placed a warning on the box stating that only the V1000 cards
% would work.  To put it another way, I think it should be treated as if
% it were a new product, and if the V2x00 cards were out at release time
% then they are responsible for fixing it.

I am not trying to defend anybody here, but....  If memory serves me
correctly, CART was repackaged before or about the time the newer Verite
chip sets were finding their way to the market.  While I am sure that
Papy/Sierra were aware of the possibilities of some of the problems (the
reports were out), I also think they assumed that work was still be done
with the Rendition chipset to fix this problem.  Instead it was carried
over into the latest set.

% Looking at the other piece, I think it is unreasonable to expect that
% the new Rendition cards be 100% backward compatible with their older
% siblings.  However, the advertising on the stealth II didn't really
% indicate that there may be a problem.  I know the lawyerly types could
% point out the places on the box which hinted that all games might not
% work, but the strong implication was that I would not have a problem
% with V1000 titles.  Some would call this effective advertising, I tend
% to think of it as deceitful and unethical.  Unless I missed an
% explicit disclaimer about some games not working, I think they should
% be responsible for some portion of a fix, maybe perfecting the utility
% that's already out there for fixing older rendition titles.

Ah, but I think Rendition does owe it to their customers.  They were the
ones strongly behind the Rendition version of ICR2, they wanted it as
their "show case".  To leave it behind crippled, makes me wonder (as a
Rendition customer), how much more support I should expect from them in
the future.

% The last thing to consider is the fact that most consumers have a
% simple remedy: return the game.  I'm sure that even stubborn retailers
% like Best Buy will accept the return since the product is demonstrably
% defective (it doesn't work as advertised.)  

% Anyway, just my $0.02

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

My take on the "who's to blame" is simple.  Papy has no way to guarantee
forward compatibility.  Rendition is the one who said the V2X00 was
backwards compatible with V1000, not Papy.  It IS Rendition's problem,
and Papy has decided not to bail them out.  It also looks like Rendition
has decided not to fix it either.

Just $0.02 more.

Dave

Regards,

Dave

On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 07:30:26 -0500, Steve Bower

Anyway, about the blame...  Papy said (on the box) that CART would
work with any Rendition card.  It doesn't.  If Papy knew there were
problems, or if they had the ability to test the game on the new cards
before (re)-release, then they should be held responsible for living
up to the claims that they made.

I am not aware of Rendition making any claims of 100% backward
compatibility.  If they have, then they are responsible as well, but
that does not exculpate Papy.  There's plenty of blame to go around
for everybody. ;)

Regards,

Dave