rec.autos.simulators

Nascar 2002: Performance

Brian Oste

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Brian Oste » Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:40:33

I have read about the improved graphics in N2002 and how it will use
texture compression when using Direct3D.  N4 runs pretty good on my
system now (see specs below), but I have determined that my CPU is the
constraint in regards to frame rate.  Does anyone know if N2002 will
require steeper system specs to get the same frame rates as N4?  Right
now OpenGL is the choice for N4, but will N2002 run better under
Direct3d?

The reason I determined it was my CPU was that if I run a race with
all graphics options at the highest and run at the back of a 43 car
field, I get poor frame rates.  If I run the replay (cockpit camera) I
get great frame rates.  Since in both cases the graphics card is doing
the same amount of work it must be the CPU.  I turn down the graphics
options some and I get good performance.  I know the graphics card is
doing most of the work, but increased graphic options *does* put
addtional load on the CPU.  Add this to the phyiscs, ai, etc. and the
CPU becomes the bottleneck.  Will the texture compression put an
additional load on the CPU or will this work be passed off to the
Graphics card?

System Specs:
PIII 933
Geforce2 Ultra
SB Live Value
256 Meg Ram
Win98 First Edition

Brian Oster

Tim

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Tim » Thu, 31 Jan 2002 00:57:46

I don't think cpu is your problem at this point Brian.  I have a
nearly identical system. When running against AI in a 43 car field,
the FR will drop to around 22-24 just as the green waves, and then it
smooths out to anywhere from 40-80 FPS. My system is a P3-1gz and a
32mb GF2 card.

Are you running OpenGL, and have you checked to be sure things like
anti-alias and Vsync are turned off in your video properties?

On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:40:33 GMT, Brian Oster


>I have read about the improved graphics in N2002 and how it will use
>texture compression when using Direct3D.  N4 runs pretty good on my
>system now (see specs below), but I have determined that my CPU is the
>constraint in regards to frame rate.  Does anyone know if N2002 will
>require steeper system specs to get the same frame rates as N4?  Right
>now OpenGL is the choice for N4, but will N2002 run better under
>Direct3d?

>The reason I determined it was my CPU was that if I run a race with
>all graphics options at the highest and run at the back of a 43 car
>field, I get poor frame rates.  If I run the replay (cockpit camera) I
>get great frame rates.  Since in both cases the graphics card is doing
>the same amount of work it must be the CPU.  I turn down the graphics
>options some and I get good performance.  I know the graphics card is
>doing most of the work, but increased graphic options *does* put
>addtional load on the CPU.  Add this to the phyiscs, ai, etc. and the
>CPU becomes the bottleneck.  Will the texture compression put an
>additional load on the CPU or will this work be passed off to the
>Graphics card?

>System Specs:
>PIII 933
>Geforce2 Ultra
>SB Live Value
>256 Meg Ram
>Win98 First Edition

>Brian Oster

                  Tim Wortman
      North American Simulation Series
               www.nasscar.com
Brian Oste

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Brian Oste » Thu, 31 Jan 2002 01:38:45

I am running OpenGL.  Latest Detonator drivers (I think).  I have
turned off v-sync, anti-alis, etc.  There is a guide that has been
circulating around here (I am sure you have seen it) and I went
through all the settings.  

Before my monitor died I was running at 1600x1280x16, showing 30 cars
ahead, maximum car detail, draw ahead around 60%, etc.  Basically Avg
to High graphics settings, but not everything maxed out.  At the drop
of the flag and with most of the field in front of me I would get
25-30 fps.  On replay however, I would get 80+ fps.   With the new
monitor I dropped to 1280x1024x16 and I am getting almost the exact
same fps.  Since, from the graphics cards point of view, the replay is
the exact same as the live race, i.e. it still has to draw the exact
same thing on the screen, the only difference is that the CPU is not
having to calculate your car physics and the AI.  The single biggest
thing I can do to increase performance is lower draw ahead distance
and the number of cars shown.  I can crank car and world detail up all
the way and run the highest resolution my monitor will support and the
FPS stay about the same.  But with the extra cars, the CPU now has to
calculate graphics data to give to the graphics card.  Same with draw
ahead.

I could be wrong and there is some little tweak somewhere that would
gain me 40fps, but I really think I am CPU constrained.  Your CPU is
not a whole lot faster than mine, but it is faster...  maybe just fast
enough to calculate physics, AI and graphics data.  

I am not complaining, I can live with the performance of N4 on my
system, I just hope N2002 does not put any more of a burden on the
CPU.

>I don't think cpu is your problem at this point Brian.  I have a
>nearly identical system. When running against AI in a 43 car field,
>the FR will drop to around 22-24 just as the green waves, and then it
>smooths out to anywhere from 40-80 FPS. My system is a P3-1gz and a
>32mb GF2 card.

>Are you running OpenGL, and have you checked to be sure things like
>anti-alias and Vsync are turned off in your video properties?

>On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:40:33 GMT, Brian Oster

>>I have read about the improved graphics in N2002 and how it will use
>>texture compression when using Direct3D.  N4 runs pretty good on my
>>system now (see specs below), but I have determined that my CPU is the
>>constraint in regards to frame rate.  Does anyone know if N2002 will
>>require steeper system specs to get the same frame rates as N4?  Right
>>now OpenGL is the choice for N4, but will N2002 run better under
>>Direct3d?

>>The reason I determined it was my CPU was that if I run a race with
>>all graphics options at the highest and run at the back of a 43 car
>>field, I get poor frame rates.  If I run the replay (cockpit camera) I
>>get great frame rates.  Since in both cases the graphics card is doing
>>the same amount of work it must be the CPU.  I turn down the graphics
>>options some and I get good performance.  I know the graphics card is
>>doing most of the work, but increased graphic options *does* put
>>addtional load on the CPU.  Add this to the phyiscs, ai, etc. and the
>>CPU becomes the bottleneck.  Will the texture compression put an
>>additional load on the CPU or will this work be passed off to the
>>Graphics card?

>>System Specs:
>>PIII 933
>>Geforce2 Ultra
>>SB Live Value
>>256 Meg Ram
>>Win98 First Edition

>>Brian Oster

>                  Tim Wortman
>      North American Simulation Series
>               www.nasscar.com

Brian Oster
Scott B. Huste

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Scott B. Huste » Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:14:04

This is from Eric Busch over on the mho*** newsgroup:

While there's not really going to be any performance differences, a 128MB
card would be preferred if you want to use OpenGL and be guaranteed to see
all of the textures at their highest MIP levels.

- Eric


Scott
PA-Scott

The Other Larr

Nascar 2002: Performance

by The Other Larr » Thu, 31 Jan 2002 04:12:45

Sheesh.  You have GOT to be kidding me!

-Larry



> This is from Eric Busch over on the mho*** newsgroup:

> While there's not really going to be any performance differences, a 128MB
> card would be preferred if you want to use OpenGL and be guaranteed to see
> all of the textures at their highest MIP levels.

> - Eric



> > So... you'd say that if you could get a 128mb card instead of 64mb, the
> > performance would be better?

> Scott
> PA-Scott

Tim

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Tim » Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:00:18

You're right about the difference between replay and live as the cpu
does the AI calculations Brian. I neglected to ask what resolution you
were running, and that is clearly the difference between our systems.
I'm running in 800x600, mainly because it makes the chat text so much
easier to read during MP races.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:38:45 GMT, Brian Oster



>I am running OpenGL.  Latest Detonator drivers (I think).  I have
>turned off v-sync, anti-alis, etc.  There is a guide that has been
>circulating around here (I am sure you have seen it) and I went
>through all the settings.  

                  Tim Wortman
      North American Simulation Series
               www.nasscar.com
Eric Busc

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Eric Busc » Fri, 01 Feb 2002 01:45:25

Actually this may not end up being to be the case.  While it's true that
NR2002's OpenGL renderer will ship without support for texture compression,
we are hoping get that feature added in a patch.  That means a 32MB or 64MB
card (with texture compression support) would be fine for OpenGL.

- Eric



Scott B. Huste

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Scott B. Huste » Fri, 01 Feb 2002 02:43:40

I was just about to add that post over here ;)

Scott
PA-Scott


> Actually this may not end up being to be the case.  While it's true that
> NR2002's OpenGL renderer will ship without support for texture
compression,
> we are hoping get that feature added in a patch.  That means a 32MB or
64MB
> card (with texture compression support) would be fine for OpenGL.

> - Eric



> > This is from Eric Busch over on the mho*** newsgroup:

> > While there's not really going to be any performance differences, a
128MB
> > card would be preferred if you want to use OpenGL and be guaranteed to
see
> > all of the textures at their highest MIP levels.

Marc Collin

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Marc Collin » Sat, 02 Feb 2002 01:50:42

Once that support is added in (I'll assume you guys will pull it off), would
we expect the same OpenGL advantage if using nVIDIA hardware as exists in
N4?

OpenGL certainly runs better and looks better on my GeForce card in N4.  I
am not opposed to using D3D for NR2002 if it performs well, just wondering
how changed the new graphics system is...

Marc


> Actually this may not end up being to be the case.  While it's true that
> NR2002's OpenGL renderer will ship without support for texture
compression,
> we are hoping get that feature added in a patch.  That means a 32MB or
64MB
> card (with texture compression support) would be fine for OpenGL.

> - Eric



> > This is from Eric Busch over on the mho*** newsgroup:

> > While there's not really going to be any performance differences, a
128MB
> > card would be preferred if you want to use OpenGL and be guaranteed to
see
> > all of the textures at their highest MIP levels.

Brian Oste

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Brian Oste » Sun, 03 Feb 2002 00:04:16

Thats a good question.  I installed the demo and while the D3D
graphics look way better than the D3D graphics in N4, my frame rates
are still not as high as they are in N4 using OpenGL.  I think I read
somewhere though that they are using texture compression which is only
available in D3D.  To get the same graphics in OpenGL you would need a
128meg card.

Brian

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:50:42 -0500, "Marc Collins"


>Once that support is added in (I'll assume you guys will pull it off), would
>we expect the same OpenGL advantage if using nVIDIA hardware as exists in
>N4?

>OpenGL certainly runs better and looks better on my GeForce card in N4.  I
>am not opposed to using D3D for NR2002 if it performs well, just wondering
>how changed the new graphics system is...

>Marc



>> Actually this may not end up being to be the case.  While it's true that
>> NR2002's OpenGL renderer will ship without support for texture
>compression,
>> we are hoping get that feature added in a patch.  That means a 32MB or
>64MB
>> card (with texture compression support) would be fine for OpenGL.

>> - Eric



>> > This is from Eric Busch over on the mho*** newsgroup:

>> > While there's not really going to be any performance differences, a
>128MB
>> > card would be preferred if you want to use OpenGL and be guaranteed to
>see
>> > all of the textures at their highest MIP levels.

Brian Oster
Dave Henri

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Dave Henri » Sun, 03 Feb 2002 01:25:52


  here is a REPOST of a message just a little further back in the thread.

Actually this may not end up being to be the case.  While it's true that
NR2002's OpenGL renderer will ship without support for texture compression,
we are hoping get that feature added in a patch.  That means a 32MB or 64MB
card (with texture compression support) would be fine for OpenGL.

- Eric

Goy Larse

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Goy Larse » Sun, 03 Feb 2002 08:08:14


> This is from Eric Busch over on the mho*** newsgroup:

> While there's not really going to be any performance differences, a 128MB
> card would be preferred if you want to use OpenGL and be guaranteed to see
> all of the textures at their highest MIP levels.

> - Eric



> > So... you'd say that if you could get a 128mb card instead of 64mb, the
> > performance would be better?

> Scott
> PA-Scott

Madness, utter madness, I'll spare you all the rest of the rant

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke"
--Groucho Marx--

John Simmon

Nascar 2002: Performance

by John Simmon » Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:00:51

A 128mb card?  Holy freakin christ!

And aren't we lucky that ATI and nVidia are just now hitting the shelves
with 128mb cards!



> > This is from Eric Busch over on the mho*** newsgroup:

> > While there's not really going to be any performance differences, a 128MB
> > card would be preferred if you want to use OpenGL and be guaranteed to see
> > all of the textures at their highest MIP levels.

> > - Eric



> > > So... you'd say that if you could get a 128mb card instead of 64mb, the
> > > performance would be better?

> > Scott
> > PA-Scott

> Madness, utter madness, I'll spare you all the rest of the rant

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Eric Busc

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Eric Busc » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 03:30:40

Out of the box you should see relative performances similar to that of
N4, so if OpenGL was faster for you in N4 it should be faster for you in
NR2002 as well.  The drawback will be that at least initially OpenGL
will require approximately 4 times the amount of texture memory as D3D
to maintain the same texture quality.  Hopefully texture compression for
OpenGL will make it into a patch, and that will no longer be an issue.

- Eric


Goy Larse

Nascar 2002: Performance

by Goy Larse » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 05:20:30


> A 128mb card?  Holy freakin christ!

> And aren't we lucky that ATI and nVidia are just now hitting the shelves
> with 128mb cards!

Jippi

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke"
--Groucho Marx--


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