rec.autos.simulators

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

Andre Warring

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Andre Warring » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:02:53

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

--- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post ---

When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. It felt
like a 2-year old game in every way. Graphics sucked compared to other
F1 sims, sound was poor (no engine sounds of the other cars) and car
behaviour was so unbelievable odd sometimes that I deleted GP3 after a
week or 2.

The only good thing about GP3 was imho the variable weather which was
nothing short of amazing.

Allthough I was affraid it would be a waste of time, I tried the 2000
addon. And now I spend the whole weekend playing GP3 instead of GPL..
That should say enough :)

First of all, I never tried all the addons that were released for GP3,
including the sounds-for-all-cars patch, so the only thing I saw so
far was GP3 as it came out of the box.

Anyway, I installed the addon. I chose automatic sound calibration and
that worked perfect. Automatic graphics calibration, and it
recommended 1280x1024 with all settings on, whoopy.

Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my
CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately
reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis.

Calibrated them, calibration succesfull!

Finally I chose a track and was ready to test the car. The track
loaded, I was in the pits, and.. &%^$, calibration of my pedals
suddenly didn't work, I couldn't even choose 'leave pits'.

Escape, back to control menu, recalibrate, pedals worked again, onto
the track again, pedals didnt work. %&$^ !

After much digging in old RAS posts I finally found a post suggesting
the Joyreg utility.

Installed Joyreg, recalibrated in GP3, and it finally worked! Costed
me about 3 hours in total to figure it out. Thanks Geoff, take a
closer look at Papy's calibration system next time.

Anyway, time for a testdrive. Monaco, dry weather, quick race. First
thing I noticed: THE SOUND!

Full EAX, all the cars made sound now, GREAT!! Into the tunnel was
totally fantastic with the sound reflecting off the walls. Simply the
best use in a car sim of EAX I have ever heard, great great great.

Buuuut there was a slight problem.. the control of my car was total
crap. Wheels locked way too easily and too suddenly, I couldn't feel
where the locking point was. Steering also was very odd.

So: back to the dreadfull control menu.

After an hour of unsuccesful messing with all the settings it was time
to dig up some info on the internet again. I found a control setup
guide on www.bhmotorsports.com. Tried it, and now the control of the
car was muchos better. The biggest difference was setting the steering
lock on the maximum of 20 instead of the default settings of 12, which
helped a lot in getting more feeling in the steering.

Ok, finally I got this thing setup ok. The next thing wanted to do was
to download my hometrack, Zandvoort. I raced there for real a couple
of weeks ago, read that the track was created for GP3, so I was very
curious if it would be any good. Downloaded the track, installation
was a bit of a hassle since none of the trackmanagers worked with the
2000 addon (all of the utilities I tried were looking for the GP3.exe,
GP3 2000 uses another exe) but with a bit of manual file renaming I
got it working quite easily.

Onto the track, and allthough the real life version is a bit
different, the banking in the GP3 was a bit off in most corners, it
was still huge fun to drive the current layout of Zandy on my
computer. After half an hour of practice I did some 1:22 laps (yes I
know the WR is 1:18 in GP3 so I suck :) and it was time for a race. I
chose Pro level, the fastest AI guys were doing qualification laps of
1:22 there so that would be a good level to race them on.

Qualified 6th. The lights went out and there we went. After 2 laps I
had overtaken 2 guys and I was in 4th place. And crap, there I spun on
the track, overdid it in the Nissan corner. With 18 guys close behind
me I was expecting the usual AI pileup, as I was used in GPL. But..
all the AI cars were avoiding me.. most drove around me, a couple of
cars who couldn't drive around me stopped.. this was great! I turned
my car after everyone passed me safely, and was dead last now. But the
backmarkers were doing 1:24-1:25 laps so it was quite easy to get back
to 12 position. From there it got harder and harder (the driving), the
AI was blocking me, weren't giving me an inch.. man this was simply
the best AI I ever encountered in a racing sim, I was having a hell of
a fight with the AI.

After a couple of laps more, back to 10th, I locked my wheels while
braking for Tarzan, hit the wall, and without nose and front wheels
the race was over for me. I watched the replay (you can save up to 90
minutes of replay now) and it was fantastic to see the race.. the AI
was behaving perfect at the start, no crashes, and to see how they
avoided my car when I spun on the middle of the track was amazing.

In the replay you can also hear the crowds cheering, which was another
surprising feature.

Time for another race but now I chose a race in the rain. Well,
errr... after 2 laps with sliding off at every corner I thought I
would try that again later. Much later :) Damn, driving on a wet track
is hard!

So, as you guessed by now, my opinion about GP3 has changed radically
after this 2000 update.

In GP3 I discovered a very stupid physics bug. When I was standing
still on the track, turned my wheel left, and gave gas, the car was
turning around it's middle axis, on and on. After the 2000 addon this
bug has gone and under the same conditions the car turns as I expect
it to do.

Force feedback is nice, not half as good as in GPL, but it's good.
Graphics are still quite sad compared to the beautiful F1RC, but
they're better than in GP3 I think.. it seems less pixelated and there
are much more track objects now, giving the tracks more atmosphere.
Sound is as I mentioned great. EAX implementation is wonderfull, crank
up those 4 speakers and annoy your neighbours! Though the engine
sounds could use some improvement.. theyre not bad, especially while
watching a replay from the TV cam they sound great, but the in-car
sound could sound a bit more powerfull. But this is a matter of taste
I guess, I dont know how it sounds like sitting in an F1 car with a
helmet on.

I read the menu system would be improved in the 2000 addon, well I
still think it's way too clumsy, especially settings up the
controllers was quite annoying to say the least. It hardly changed
compared to GP3.

Too bad the GP3 utilities don't work with the addon, so you can't
import GP3 carsets, carshapes and stuff like that. Not yet anyway, I
don't think it will take long before the tools are made compatible
with the addon. It seems like the structure of GP3 files remained the
same, its just that GP3 2000 uses another exe file to start and most
utilities have to adapt to that. (he said simplistic without any
programming skills).

So far my fave -current- F1 sim was F1RC, but with it's lack of
multiplayer and the baaaad AI there's not much fun of playing it
anymore. The AI in GP3 has the right rythm, when I set the AI to Pro
level where they drive allmost the same laptimes as me, they also have
the same speed as me in the corners and on the straights. Unlike F1RC,
where the AI is way too fast in the corners and way too slow on the
straights. And I think I have the only copy of F1RC where the AI
doesn't learn, because after many races they still suck. In GP3 the AI
doesn't have to learn, they know how to drive right out of the
package.

Whats quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, its
totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI.
While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a
lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead
of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot.

I also read you can collide with debris from other cars. I didnt test
this yet, but I read a report from someone whose front wing got broken
off after colliding with a wheel that was lying on the road after an
accident. If it really works that way.. thats good, thats really
good.

And then.. the physics... here goes...

Ok, right out of the box, the settings for the controllers suck. Read
that guide I was talking about on http://www.bhmotorsports.com and try
those settings. They work like a charm on my system. After that you
get much more control and feeling of the car. Im not a physics
expert, unlike Gregor Veble I cant tell you WHY is feels good, I just
can tell you THAT is feels good :)

Sliding a bit when entering a corner too fast a la Montoya, feeling
the rear braking out and quickly catching the spin, squeezing the
brakes while entering Tarzan, its all there, and it feels good. I
dont know if its the physics that have changed in GP3 2000, that
its because of the year 2000 cars, because of the new setups or
because of my improved controller settings.. but it all feels so much
better than in GP3. Better/worse than F1CS2k/F1RC? No idea. F1CS2k
feels good, F1RC feels good, but they all feel slightly different and
I couldnt tell which one comes closest to reality. If I have to guess
its F1RC, but one thing about the physics of F1RC is that the car
spins without any kind of warning. That may be realistic, what I
seriously doubt since you feel so much more in a real car, and Im
sure you can feel when the car is driving on its limit, but anyway,
its annoying as hell. In GP3 its possible to save a spin, but its
HARD to do so, and thats the way I like it. Possible to save a spin,
but you have to work for it. With its excellent AI, variable weather
and all the user-made tracks the winner is clear to me.

The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer.
What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been
implemented. But I read some ...

read more »

Ed Solhei

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Ed Solhei » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:16:10

Now for the million dollar question....
[......    .......   drum-roll    .......    ......]
Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000??

--
ed_


> This is how GP3 should have been released. I still think GP3 was more
> of a beta version, and the '2000 addon' is nothing more than a major
> patch for GP3 to make it as it should have been. Just like F1RC2 will
> be the patch for the F1RC beta.

> Andre

> GP3 2000 lover :)

Andre Warring

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Andre Warring » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:44:07

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:10 +0200, "Ed Solheim"


>Now for the million dollar question....
>[......    .......   drum-roll    .......    ......]
>Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000??

Yes, it's an add-on for GP3 so you need a copy of GP3.
I do agree with someone else who wrote his thoughts about GP3 2000
here - this addon turns GP3 into the sim that it should have been in
the first place. GP3 was seriously lacking, and allthough there are
lots of wishes left after the installation of the addon, it's a very,
very good F1 sim now.

So.. question remains is if we have to pay for this addon since it's
mostly an essential update with things that should have been in the
game in the first place..

Andre / who wonders if F1RC2 will be free for download as an essential
update for F1RC1

Carol Bekke

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Carol Bekke » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:58:44

And how much does one have to pay to get this patch?
Ed Solhei

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Ed Solhei » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:12:53

In that case... it sounds too me like just another rip-off..

No way I'm paying twice the price just  to get what should have been GP3 and
not 2 patches for GP2

--
ed_


> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:10 +0200, "Ed Solheim"

> >Now for the million dollar question....
> >[......    .......   drum-roll    .......    ......]
> >Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000??

> Yes, it's an add-on for GP3 so you need a copy of GP3.
> I do agree with someone else who wrote his thoughts about GP3 2000
> here - this addon turns GP3 into the sim that it should have been in
> the first place. GP3 was seriously lacking, and allthough there are
> lots of wishes left after the installation of the addon, it's a very,
> very good F1 sim now.

> So.. question remains is if we have to pay for this addon since it's
> mostly an essential update with things that should have been in the
> game in the first place..

> Andre / who wonders if F1RC2 will be free for download as an essential
> update for F1RC1

David L. Coo

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by David L. Coo » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:29:36

I think with GPxPatch GP3 is better than GP3 2000.  I can't even get my 64MB
GF2 Ultra to calibrate in GP3 2000 without crashing to the desktop...


> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:10 +0200, "Ed Solheim"

> >Now for the million dollar question....
> >[......    .......   drum-roll    .......    ......]
> >Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000??

> Yes, it's an add-on for GP3 so you need a copy of GP3.
> I do agree with someone else who wrote his thoughts about GP3 2000
> here - this addon turns GP3 into the sim that it should have been in
> the first place. GP3 was seriously lacking, and allthough there are
> lots of wishes left after the installation of the addon, it's a very,
> very good F1 sim now.

> So.. question remains is if we have to pay for this addon since it's
> mostly an essential update with things that should have been in the
> game in the first place..

> Andre / who wonders if F1RC2 will be free for download as an essential
> update for F1RC1

BRH

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by BRH » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:52:07

Andre, Thanks for that review.....  It sounds like it might be worthwhile.

One question though (OK, maybe more...):

1.  I see that you use the LWFF with CH pedals.  (I use the LWFF with TSW
pedals).  On what ID number do you have the wheel and on which are the
pedals?  I ask this because, on my system, to get FF in GP3 now, I have to
switch the ID numbers from what GPL requires, which is a bit annoying.

2.  Also, related to this, you mentioned F1RC, so you must have at least
tried it out.  How did you get F1RC to recognize 2 different controllers
at the same time (LWFF plus CH pedals)?

Thanks again,
Bert

Andre Warringa wrote:
> GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

> --- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post ---

> When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. It felt
> like a 2-year old game in every way. Graphics sucked compared to other
> F1 sims, sound was poor (no engine sounds of the other cars) and car
> behaviour was so unbelievable odd sometimes that I deleted GP3 after a
> week or 2.

> The only good thing about GP3 was imho the variable weather which was
> nothing short of amazing.

> Allthough I was affraid it would be a waste of time, I tried the 2000
> addon. And now I spend the whole weekend playing GP3 instead of GPL..
> That should say enough :)

> First of all, I never tried all the addons that were released for GP3,
> including the sounds-for-all-cars patch, so the only thing I saw so
> far was GP3 as it came out of the box.

> Anyway, I installed the addon. I chose automatic sound calibration and
> that worked perfect. Automatic graphics calibration, and it
> recommended 1280x1024 with all settings on, whoopy.

> Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my
> CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately
> reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis.

> Calibrated them, calibration succesfull!

> Finally I chose a track and was ready to test the car. The track
> loaded, I was in the pits, and.. &%^$, calibration of my pedals
> suddenly didn't work, I couldn't even choose 'leave pits'.

> Escape, back to control menu, recalibrate, pedals worked again, onto
> the track again, pedals didnt work. %&$^ !

> After much digging in old RAS posts I finally found a post suggesting
> the Joyreg utility.

> Installed Joyreg, recalibrated in GP3, and it finally worked! Costed
> me about 3 hours in total to figure it out. Thanks Geoff, take a
> closer look at Papy's calibration system next time.

> Anyway, time for a testdrive. Monaco, dry weather, quick race. First
> thing I noticed: THE SOUND!

> Full EAX, all the cars made sound now, GREAT!! Into the tunnel was
> totally fantastic with the sound reflecting off the walls. Simply the
> best use in a car sim of EAX I have ever heard, great great great.

> Buuuut there was a slight problem.. the control of my car was total
> crap. Wheels locked way too easily and too suddenly, I couldn't feel
> where the locking point was. Steering also was very odd.

> So: back to the dreadfull control menu.

> After an hour of unsuccesful messing with all the settings it was time
> to dig up some info on the internet again. I found a control setup
> guide on www.bhmotorsports.com. Tried it, and now the control of the
> car was muchos better. The biggest difference was setting the steering
> lock on the maximum of 20 instead of the default settings of 12, which
> helped a lot in getting more feeling in the steering.

> Ok, finally I got this thing setup ok. The next thing wanted to do was
> to download my hometrack, Zandvoort. I raced there for real a couple
> of weeks ago, read that the track was created for GP3, so I was very
> curious if it would be any good. Downloaded the track, installation
> was a bit of a hassle since none of the trackmanagers worked with the
> 2000 addon (all of the utilities I tried were looking for the GP3.exe,
> GP3 2000 uses another exe) but with a bit of manual file renaming I
> got it working quite easily.

> Onto the track, and allthough the real life version is a bit
> different, the banking in the GP3 was a bit off in most corners, it
> was still huge fun to drive the current layout of Zandy on my
> computer. After half an hour of practice I did some 1:22 laps (yes I
> know the WR is 1:18 in GP3 so I suck :) and it was time for a race. I
> chose Pro level, the fastest AI guys were doing qualification laps of
> 1:22 there so that would be a good level to race them on.

> Qualified 6th. The lights went out and there we went. After 2 laps I
> had overtaken 2 guys and I was in 4th place. And crap, there I spun on
> the track, overdid it in the Nissan corner. With 18 guys close behind
> me I was expecting the usual AI pileup, as I was used in GPL. But..
> all the AI cars were avoiding me.. most drove around me, a couple of
> cars who couldn't drive around me stopped.. this was great! I turned
> my car after everyone passed me safely, and was dead last now. But the
> backmarkers were doing 1:24-1:25 laps so it was quite easy to get back
> to 12 position. From there it got harder and harder (the driving), the
> AI was blocking me, weren't giving me an inch.. man this was simply
> the best AI I ever encountered in a racing sim, I was having a hell of
> a fight with the AI.

> After a couple of laps more, back to 10th, I locked my wheels while
> braking for Tarzan, hit the wall, and without nose and front wheels
> the race was over for me. I watched the replay (you can save up to 90
> minutes of replay now) and it was fantastic to see the race.. the AI
> was behaving perfect at the start, no crashes, and to see how they
> avoided my car when I spun on the middle of the track was amazing.

> In the replay you can also hear the crowds cheering, which was another
> surprising feature.

> Time for another race but now I chose a race in the rain. Well,
> errr... after 2 laps with sliding off at every corner I thought I
> would try that again later. Much later :) Damn, driving on a wet track
> is hard!

> So, as you guessed by now, my opinion about GP3 has changed radically
> after this 2000 update.

> In GP3 I discovered a very stupid physics bug. When I was standing
> still on the track, turned my wheel left, and gave gas, the car was
> turning around it's middle axis, on and on. After the 2000 addon this
> bug has gone and under the same conditions the car turns as I expect
> it to do.

> Force feedback is nice, not half as good as in GPL, but it's good.
> Graphics are still quite sad compared to the beautiful F1RC, but
> they're better than in GP3 I think.. it seems less pixelated and there
> are much more track objects now, giving the tracks more atmosphere.
> Sound is as I mentioned great. EAX implementation is wonderfull, crank
> up those 4 speakers and annoy your neighbours! Though the engine
> sounds could use some improvement.. theyre not bad, especially while
> watching a replay from the TV cam they sound great, but the in-car
> sound could sound a bit more powerfull. But this is a matter of taste
> I guess, I dont know how it sounds like sitting in an F1 car with a
> helmet on.

> I read the menu system would be improved in the 2000 addon, well I
> still think it's way too clumsy, especially settings up the
> controllers was quite annoying to say the least. It hardly changed
> compared to GP3.

> Too bad the GP3 utilities don't work with the addon, so you can't
> import GP3 carsets, carshapes and stuff like that. Not yet anyway, I
> don't think it will take long before the tools are made compatible
> with the addon. It seems like the structure of GP3 files remained the
> same, its just that GP3 2000 uses another exe file to start and most
> utilities have to adapt to that. (he said simplistic without any
> programming skills).

> So far my fave -current- F1 sim was F1RC, but with it's lack of
> multiplayer and the baaaad AI there's not much fun of playing it
> anymore. The AI in GP3 has the right rythm, when I set the AI to Pro
> level where they drive allmost the same laptimes as me, they also have
> the same speed as me in the corners and on the straights. Unlike F1RC,
> where the AI is way too fast in the corners and way too slow on the
> straights. And I think I have the only copy of F1RC where the AI
> doesn't learn, because after many races they still suck. In GP3 the AI
> doesn't have to learn, they know how to drive right out of the
> package.

> Whats quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, its
> totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI.
> While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a
> lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead
> of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot.

> I also read you can collide with debris from other cars. I didnt test
> this yet, but I read a report from someone whose front wing got broken
> off after colliding with a wheel that was lying on the road after an
> accident. If it really works that way.. thats good, thats really
> good.

> And then.. the physics... here goes...

> Ok, right out of the box, the settings for the controllers suck. Read
> that guide I was talking about on http://www.bhmotorsports.com and try
> those settings. They work like a charm on my system. After that you
> get much more control and feeling of the car. Im not a physics
> expert, unlike Gregor Veble I cant tell you WHY is feels good, I just
> can tell you THAT is feels good :)

> Sliding a bit when entering a corner too fast a la Montoya, feeling
> the rear braking out and quickly catching the spin, squeezing the
> brakes while entering Tarzan, its all there, and it feels good. I
> dont know if its the physics that have changed in GP3 2000, that
> its because of the year 2000 cars, because of the new setups or
> because of my improved controller settings.. but

...

read more »

Iain Mackenzi

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Iain Mackenzi » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:37:31

About 13 in the UK.
Iain


Iain Mackenzi

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Iain Mackenzi » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:39:25

Sounds good Andre, but I'm a little worried that you haven't tried any of
the patches for GP3 from the web.  GPx patch, various sound event packs, and
2001 graphics for the cars etc. completely transform GP3 in my opinion. So,
we can't really judge the addon until you've tried them out.
Iain

"Andre Warringa" <a.warrin...@chello.nl> wrote in message

news:o7d2otkmj8418e21vdo6vhq5gu9tej6d51@4ax.com...

> GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

> --- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post ---

> When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. It felt
> like a 2-year old game in every way. Graphics sucked compared to other
> F1 sims, sound was poor (no engine sounds of the other cars) and car
> behaviour was so unbelievable odd sometimes that I deleted GP3 after a
> week or 2.

> The only good thing about GP3 was imho the variable weather which was
> nothing short of amazing.

> Allthough I was affraid it would be a waste of time, I tried the 2000
> addon. And now I spend the whole weekend playing GP3 instead of GPL..
> That should say enough :)

> First of all, I never tried all the addons that were released for GP3,
> including the sounds-for-all-cars patch, so the only thing I saw so
> far was GP3 as it came out of the box.

> Anyway, I installed the addon. I chose automatic sound calibration and
> that worked perfect. Automatic graphics calibration, and it
> recommended 1280x1024 with all settings on, whoopy.

> Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my
> CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately
> reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis.

> Calibrated them, calibration succesfull!

> Finally I chose a track and was ready to test the car. The track
> loaded, I was in the pits, and.. &%^$, calibration of my pedals
> suddenly didn't work, I couldn't even choose 'leave pits'.

> Escape, back to control menu, recalibrate, pedals worked again, onto
> the track again, pedals didn't work. %&$^ !

> After much digging in old RAS posts I finally found a post suggesting
> the Joyreg utility.

> Installed Joyreg, recalibrated in GP3, and it finally worked! Costed
> me about 3 hours in total to figure it out. Thanks Geoff, take a
> closer look at Papy's calibration system next time.

> Anyway, time for a testdrive. Monaco, dry weather, quick race. First
> thing I noticed: THE SOUND!

> Full EAX, all the cars made sound now, GREAT!! Into the tunnel was
> totally fantastic with the sound reflecting off the walls. Simply the
> best use in a car sim of EAX I have ever heard, great great great.

> Buuuut there was a slight problem.. the control of my car was total
> crap. Wheels locked way too easily and too suddenly, I couldn't feel
> where the locking point was. Steering also was very odd.

> So: back to the dreadfull control menu.

> After an hour of unsuccesful messing with all the settings it was time
> to dig up some info on the internet again. I found a control setup
> guide on www.bhmotorsports.com. Tried it, and now the control of the
> car was muchos better. The biggest difference was setting the steering
> lock on the maximum of 20 instead of the default settings of 12, which
> helped a lot in getting more feeling in the steering.

> Ok, finally I got this thing setup ok. The next thing wanted to do was
> to download my hometrack, Zandvoort. I raced there for real a couple
> of weeks ago, read that the track was created for GP3, so I was very
> curious if it would be any good. Downloaded the track, installation
> was a bit of a hassle since none of the trackmanagers worked with the
> 2000 addon (all of the utilities I tried were looking for the GP3.exe,
> GP3 2000 uses another exe) but with a bit of manual file renaming I
> got it working quite easily.

> Onto the track, and allthough the real life version is a bit
> different, the banking in the GP3 was a bit off in most corners, it
> was still huge fun to drive the current layout of Zandy on my
> computer. After half an hour of practice I did some 1:22 laps (yes I
> know the WR is 1:18 in GP3 so I suck :) and it was time for a race. I
> chose Pro level, the fastest AI guys were doing qualification laps of
> 1:22 there so that would be a good level to race them on.

> Qualified 6th. The lights went out and there we went. After 2 laps I
> had overtaken 2 guys and I was in 4th place. And crap, there I spun on
> the track, overdid it in the Nissan corner. With 18 guys close behind
> me I was expecting the usual AI pileup, as I was used in GPL. But..
> all the AI cars were avoiding me.. most drove around me, a couple of
> cars who couldn't drive around me stopped.. this was great! I turned
> my car after everyone passed me safely, and was dead last now. But the
> backmarkers were doing 1:24-1:25 laps so it was quite easy to get back
> to 12 position. From there it got harder and harder (the driving), the
> AI was blocking me, weren't giving me an inch.. man this was simply
> the best AI I ever encountered in a racing sim, I was having a hell of
> a fight with the AI.

> After a couple of laps more, back to 10th, I locked my wheels while
> braking for Tarzan, hit the wall, and without nose and front wheels
> the race was over for me. I watched the replay (you can save up to 90
> minutes of replay now) and it was fantastic to see the race.. the AI
> was behaving perfect at the start, no crashes, and to see how they
> avoided my car when I spun on the middle of the track was amazing.

> In the replay you can also hear the crowds cheering, which was another
> surprising feature.

> Time for another race but now I chose a race in the rain. Well,
> errr... after 2 laps with sliding off at every corner I thought I
> would try that again later. Much later :) Damn, driving on a wet track
> is hard!

> So, as you guessed by now, my opinion about GP3 has changed radically
> after this 2000 update.

> In GP3 I discovered a very stupid physics bug. When I was standing
> still on the track, turned my wheel left, and gave gas, the car was
> turning around it's middle axis, on and on. After the 2000 addon this
> bug has gone and under the same conditions the car turns as I expect
> it to do.

> Force feedback is nice, not half as good as in GPL, but it's good.
> Graphics are still quite sad compared to the beautiful F1RC, but
> they're better than in GP3 I think.. it seems less pixelated and there
> are much more track objects now, giving the tracks more atmosphere.
> Sound is as I mentioned great. EAX implementation is wonderfull, crank
> up those 4 speakers and annoy your neighbours! Though the engine
> sounds could use some improvement.. they're not bad, especially while
> watching a replay from the TV cam they sound great, but the in-car
> sound could sound a bit more powerfull. But this is a matter of taste
> I guess, I don't know how it sounds like sitting in an F1 car with a
> helmet on.

> I read the menu system would be improved in the 2000 addon, well I
> still think it's way too clumsy, especially settings up the
> controllers was quite annoying to say the least. It hardly changed
> compared to GP3.

> Too bad the GP3 utilities don't work with the addon, so you can't
> import GP3 carsets, carshapes and stuff like that. Not yet anyway, I
> don't think it will take long before the tools are made compatible
> with the addon. It seems like the structure of GP3 files remained the
> same, it's just that GP3 2000 uses another exe file to start and most
> utilities have to adapt to that. (he said simplistic without any
> programming skills).

> So far my fave -current- F1 sim was F1RC, but with it's lack of
> multiplayer and the baaaad AI there's not much fun of playing it
> anymore. The AI in GP3 has the right rythm, when I set the AI to Pro
> level where they drive allmost the same laptimes as me, they also have
> the same speed as me in the corners and on the straights. Unlike F1RC,
> where the AI is way too fast in the corners and way too slow on the
> straights. And I think I have the only copy of F1RC where the AI
> doesn't learn, because after many races they still suck. In GP3 the AI
> doesn't have to learn, they know how to drive right out of the
> package.

> What's quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, it's
> totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI.
> While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a
> lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead
> of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot.

> I also read you can collide with debris from other cars. I didn't test
> this yet, but I read a report from someone whose front wing got broken
> off after colliding with a wheel that was lying on the road after an
> accident. If it really works that way.. that's good, that's really
> good.

> And then.. the physics... here goes...

> Ok, right out of the box, the settings for the controllers suck. Read
> that guide I was talking about on http://www.bhmotorsports.com and try
> those settings. They work like a charm on my system. After that you
> get much more control and feeling of the car. I'm not a physics
> expert, unlike Gregor Veble I can't tell you WHY is feels good, I just
> can tell you THAT is feels good :)

> Sliding a bit when entering a corner too fast a la Montoya, feeling
> the rear braking out and quickly catching the spin, squeezing the
> brakes while entering Tarzan, it's all there, and it feels good. I
> don't know if it's the physics that have changed in GP3 2000, that
> it's because of the year 2000 cars, because of the new setups or
> because of my improved controller settings.. but it all feels so much
> better than in GP3. Better/worse than F1CS2k/F1RC? No idea. F1CS2k
> feels good, F1RC feels good, but they all feel slightly different and
> I couldn't tell which one comes closest to reality. If I have to guess
> it's F1RC, but one thing about

...

read more »

Andre Warring

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Andre Warring » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:07:17


>Andre, Thanks for that review.....  It sounds like it might be worthwhile.

>One question though (OK, maybe more...):

>1.  I see that you use the LWFF with CH pedals.  (I use the LWFF with TSW
>pedals).  On what ID number do you have the wheel and on which are the
>pedals?  I ask this because, on my system, to get FF in GP3 now, I have to
>switch the ID numbers from what GPL requires, which is a bit annoying.

I have my LWFF on 1, and the pedals on 2..

Oh, that's a long story.. I explained it sometime here on RAS and it
took me allmost as long as writing the GP3 2000 review :D
Anyway, it's a long time ago and I can't remember exactly how I did
it, but this should help you a bit:
Notice when you calibrate your pedals, that the description changes
the further you press the pedals while calibrating.
For example, when you fully press the pedals and press the ok button,
it says something like Z- Axis. If you calibrate the pedals again but
press it halfway, and press ok, it says R+ axis or something like that
instead.
Well, experiment with these different values untill it works.. good
luck.. :)

Andre

Andre Warring

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Andre Warring » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:11:17

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:29:36 -0400, "David L. Cook"


>I think with GPxPatch GP3 is better than GP3 2000.  I can't even get my 64MB
>GF2 Ultra to calibrate in GP3 2000 without crashing to the desktop...

As I wrote, I never used any of the GP3 addons so I can't comment on
that. However, opinions on the GP3 forums seems to be that lots of
small extra things were addes in the GP3 addon, and the sound of the
addon is also much better now than the GPxPatch sound addon, so..

Anyway, try putting this in the cards.txt file in your gp3 2000 map:

[general]

[NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro]
bilinear=1
liverynumbers=0
detailmap=1
alticons=0
alphawithck=1

NO IDEA if it actually helps, but I stumbled on this in a GP3 forum as
recommended settings for a GF2 card. Calibration went fine on my
system with a GF2 GTS btw.

Andre

Andre Warring

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Andre Warring » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:16:14

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:39:25 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"


>Sounds good Andre, but I'm a little worried that you haven't tried any of
>the patches for GP3 from the web.  GPx patch, various sound event packs, and
>2001 graphics for the cars etc. completely transform GP3 in my opinion. So,
>we can't really judge the addon until you've tried them out.
>Iain

Very, very true, after the fiasco of GP3 I absolutely didn't bother
trying the addons released later. But I just posted my comments about
this in another post in this thread, read that please.

Btw, I can't wait for the GP3 addons to work under GP3 2000 now..
I just saw the 2001 carset made by Ralph something, he's the Bruce
Johnson of GP3 :))

(err.. for those of you who don't know Bruce - he's the van Gogh of
GPL :)

Andre

BRH

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by BRH » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:16:38

Andre, YOU ARE THE MAN!  Thanks for that tip about how to get F1RC to work with
2 separate controllers!  I asked this same question on r.a.s. a number of
times, but never got an answer that worked -- until your reply.  Not only does
it work, but I can use the same configuration as I do with GPL (Peds on ID#1
and LWFF on ID#2), and still have FF effects.

Now, if I can get confirmation that this same configuration will also work with
GP3 after the add-on, I'll definitely buy the add-on.  (Unfortunately, with GP3
out-of-the-box, I have to have the LWFF on ID#1 to get FF effects, which
necessitates swapping out ID numbers whenever I switch from one sim to
another.)

Thanks again!



> >Andre, Thanks for that review.....  It sounds like it might be worthwhile.

> >One question though (OK, maybe more...):

> >1.  I see that you use the LWFF with CH pedals.  (I use the LWFF with TSW
> >pedals).  On what ID number do you have the wheel and on which are the
> >pedals?  I ask this because, on my system, to get FF in GP3 now, I have to
> >switch the ID numbers from what GPL requires, which is a bit annoying.

> I have my LWFF on 1, and the pedals on 2..

> >2.  Also, related to this, you mentioned F1RC, so you must have at least
> >tried it out.  How did you get F1RC to recognize 2 different controllers
> >at the same time (LWFF plus CH pedals)?

> Oh, that's a long story.. I explained it sometime here on RAS and it
> took me allmost as long as writing the GP3 2000 review :D
> Anyway, it's a long time ago and I can't remember exactly how I did
> it, but this should help you a bit:
> Notice when you calibrate your pedals, that the description changes
> the further you press the pedals while calibrating.
> For example, when you fully press the pedals and press the ok button,
> it says something like Z- Axis. If you calibrate the pedals again but
> press it halfway, and press ok, it says R+ axis or something like that
> instead.
> Well, experiment with these different values untill it works.. good
> luck.. :)

> Andre

> >Thanks again,
> >Bert

--
Bert
Andre Warring

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Andre Warring » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:15:01


>Now, if I can get confirmation that this same configuration will also work with
>GP3 after the add-on, I'll definitely buy the add-on.  (Unfortunately, with GP3
>out-of-the-box, I have to have the LWFF on ID#1 to get FF effects, which
>necessitates swapping out ID numbers whenever I switch from one sim to
>another.)

Wouldn't it be easier to put the LWFF on 1 and the pedals on 2? That
way it works with all sims.
Even more, with my LWFF on 1 I have much stronger FF than when I set
it on id 2.
Good to hear you for F1RC working.. clever calibration system eh? :)

Andre

Iain Mackenzi

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

by Iain Mackenzi » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:11:23

Yep, Ralph's addon is great, but GPxpatch is the big one.  A real difference
there - adds 3D sound, other car sounds, ability to associate sound events,
gets rid of the 'sky messages', has 'official type' messages onscreen, etc.
etc.
Iain


> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:39:25 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"

> >Sounds good Andre, but I'm a little worried that you haven't tried any of
> >the patches for GP3 from the web.  GPx patch, various sound event packs,
and
> >2001 graphics for the cars etc. completely transform GP3 in my opinion.
So,
> >we can't really judge the addon until you've tried them out.
> >Iain

> Very, very true, after the fiasco of GP3 I absolutely didn't bother
> trying the addons released later. But I just posted my comments about
> this in another post in this thread, read that please.

> Btw, I can't wait for the GP3 addons to work under GP3 2000 now..
> I just saw the 2001 carset made by Ralph something, he's the Bruce
> Johnson of GP3 :))

> (err.. for those of you who don't know Bruce - he's the van Gogh of
> GPL :)

> Andre


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