rec.autos.simulators

> I think I need to clarify a bit... Trips (and correct me if I was wrong)
> was saying that as an option to let FASTER drivers through, *not* as a
> faster driver trying to pass a slower one.

> So all you really have to do it accelerate out of the corner as hard as
> normal, shift to the next gear, then do a short-shift. We are just
> talking about a very, very momentary lift or interruption in
> acceleration. Nothing big, but enough to let the guy on your gearbox get
> a tiny run on you. Really just a slight burp of the throttle.

>% >The blue flags being waved in my general direction are usually a good
>% >indication.....
>% >

>% But you get the blue flag whether you're being lapped or just being passed
>for
>% position.  So, you STILL don't know who the pursuing car is...

>Only under "practice" sessions.  During the race you are only presented
>a blue flag if you are being closely pursued by a car that is going to
>lap you.  (There are very rare occasions, due to a clock smash, where
>you may be presented a bogus blue flag while racing).

>Eric

>> So you're gaining on me down the front straight at Monza...
>approaching Curva
>> Grande, you see "Pass Right" flash on screen. How do you determine
>if I sent
>> that, or if someone else is telling the car behind HIM to pass at
>some other
>> portion of the track?

>I think it's every driver's responsibility to know which position they're
in,
>and to know the  time difference to the driver infront and to the driver
>behind.  If you're driving 5sec
>infront of driver behind you, then if suddenly a car shows up your gearbox
and
>you're shown a blue flag, you either went wide on the green stuff and
>recovered just infront of the driver to which you had 5sec gap or you are
>being lapped. It's that simple.

>Also, it's nice if the passed driver would pick his line and stick to it. I
>died once in Monza while leading the race when I was trying to outbrake the
>backmarker into Parabolica on the inside.I picked the inner line for the
>corner and suddenly, about a second  before the braking point the driver
>infront decided to veer infront of me, thus braking on the same portion of
the
>track. At first I was confused and I thought it was a warp or something,
just
>to be convinced few moments later that that wasn't warping at all :o)

>There should be some sort of sim-racing school or something that would hand
>out driver's licenses, something like Sim-FIA ;o)

>It's nice to race in league races and NTT championship, drivers there know
>what to do in most cases ... -=B-)

>Not to mention the 200 heat beat in the 1st lap in those races...uff...

>Cheers,
>Tadej

>> >If he *is* much faster, he shouldn't have a problem getting around me,
>> >especially on the straights.  How many times have *you* been lapped?
How
>> >many of those times did you know for sure that you were about to be
>> >lapped?

>> If he is much faster it will still be a heck of a lot easier to pass
>> you if you're working with him to make it happen. Chances are if you
>> force someone to fight for the pass they'll be agitated to get by and
>> on with the race, not to mention thinking (rightly) that you should
>> let them by. More than likely you'll both end up in the rails and
>> losing a barrowload more time.

>> As for knowing if I'm getting lapped, only once or twice and I soon
>> realised. When you see the guy behind you showing on the pit board as
>> a lap down then the leader is coming up on you. There are many ways to
>> know, and in any case your comment wasn't related to recognising if
>> the leader was behind you or not, rather to do with how to react once
>> you've ascertained that it IS him.

>> >Like I said, I'm not as interested  in absolute realism as I am in
making
>> >the sim a better online experience.  Maybe if they made the blue flag
>> >wave if you're about to be lapped, and be still if there's simply a car
>> >following closely.  Even that would be better than guessing all the
time.

>> Again I agree, but each person view of what is important differs and
>> in this case Papy's is the definitive one. I'd prefer an "online
>> racing simulator" which tweaks absolute realism somewhat to make life
>> easier.

>> Cheers!
>> John

> >having to switch lines to pass you. On a straight, you should pull off line at
> >full tilt and, provided that they have not done the same, ease off the throttle
> >to let them pass without getting out of their stride. On a corner where you can
> >run wide safely, do so, but otherwise on exit run inside the racing line hugging
> >the inside of the corner so that they can take the natural exit and not lose any
> >speed. If necessary move off the track. Under NO circumstances should a lappe
> >race the lapper as has often happened to me.

> Hmmm, you have to let someone pass, you don't have to***up your
> own race at the same time.

> I will let someone lap me when it is mutually convenient to do so, I
> certainly won't back way off, swing offline or take a slower line
> around a corner unless it causes me no damage to do so. Slightly
> backing out of the throttle on a straight will be enough to let
> someone slingshot past, and every circuit has several positions where
> this is possible.

> >If everyone followed this etiquette then the lapper would never deviate from
> >his/her line and the only person to lose time would be the lappee - which is how
> >it should be.

> No, that's not how it should be. I'm racing too, and while the leader
> might be a country mile ahead of second I could be involved in an
> "every second counts" struggle to catch the guy in front. No "rules"
> are necessary if both people use common-sense and have their wits
> about them. If another car is close behind the leader chances are he's
> in a fight - let him through quick and let the other guy through at
> the same time (if close enough) or very soon afterwards. If there's
> no-one behind then hold your line and help him pass somewhere
> appropriate where you both lose minimal time - suddenly backing off,
> swinging offline or whatever will take both of you out and is not to
> be recommended.

> Cheers!
> John

> See it takes little time after all! :-)

> --dave

> > I have to disagree here again :o)

> > Do you really expect the driver infront of you, exiting the corner slower then he used to
> > do ?
> > Plus, if you slow down before the straight, you loose a lot more time comparing to lapper
> > out-brake
> > you.

> > It's better to lift slightly on the straight or lifting 1sec before the braking zone.
> > I think this is the least amount of danger for both drivers.

> > Just my $0.02,
> > Tadej

> > > Trips,

> > > The suggestion about out-accelerating is a GREAT one... very easily done
> > > and with minimal time loss, like you say.

> > > --Dave

> > > > While I agree with you in that a "lappee" should NEVER try to race the overtaking
> > > > driver, I disagree about moving over for the faster car.

> > > > I'd much rather pass a car that stays to the racing line than one that unexpectedly
> > > > decides to "do me a favor" and pulls off line and slows... There's no way humanly
> > > > possible to predict just when someone will move over, I'd much rather they hold to
> > > > their line and let ME decide when to go around.

> > > > By the same token, when I'm being lapped, I'll hold to the line, and when the
> > > > overtaker gets close I'll let him out accelerate me out of a corner. I lose minimal
> > > > time that way, and the overtaker gets a clean pass on a straight.

> > > > Trips

> > > > > I disagree here. I see letting a lapper through as soon as possible as a prime
> > > > > directive. It's largely because so many drivers don't get out of the way that
> > > > > the lappers are now used to pulling off line to overtake. It is also why so many
> > > > > accidents happen when the lappee actually does the right thing and moves aside.
> > > > > You usually get the blue well before they are right on top of your gear box
> > > > > which gives you time to get out of their way before you they are committed to
> > > > > having to switch lines to pass you. On a straight, you should pull off line at
> > > > > full tilt and, provided that they have not done the same, ease off the throttle
> > > > > to let them pass without getting out of their stride. On a corner where you can
> > > > > run wide safely, do so, but otherwise on exit run inside the racing line hugging
> > > > > the inside of the corner so that they can take the natural exit and not lose any
> > > > > speed. If necessary move off the track. Under NO circumstances should a lappe
> > > > > race the lapper as has often happened to me.
> > > > > If everyone followed this etiquette then the lapper would never deviate from
> > > > > his/her line and the only person to lose time would be the lappee - which is how
> > > > > it should be. There would also be fewer accidents since both parties would know
> > > > > the form.
> > > > > It is often the case that, through accidents and the like, that the lapper is
> > > > > only a little bit faster than the lappee and if lappees continue to drive their
> > > > > own sweet race, then the lapper can be held up for a long time or else cause an
> > > > > accident by attempting a crazy manoeuvre born out of frustration. It's only a
> > > > > pity that GPL doesn't give blue flag infringements a stop/go penalty for
> > > > > ignoring 4 blues as happens in modern Formula 1.
> > > > > I say all this from a the point of view of someone who is lapped more often than
> > > > > he is lapped. However it is so frustrating when people carry on through blue
> > > > > flags just as if it were a member of the crowd waving support.
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Paul

> > > --
> > > Dave Schwabe
> > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
> > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

> --
> Dave Schwabe
> The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
> http://users.wi.net/~schwabe