>It's hard to drive behind him for more then 1 lap when you know you've got3
>or 4 guys chasing _you_ and you're leading the pack ;o)
>Tadej
getting away .
>Tadej
I'd like to race with you both, because you both have some very good
ideas about racing online. However, I'd have to concur with John on the
point of letting someone past. If myself and a faster (or slower) car
are relatively similar in corner speed, I will press on until a straight
or clear braking zone.
If I want to let someone past and they are clearly faster and are
*right* on me, I will often just lift ever-so-slightly about 50 meters
before my real braking marker. That usually prods them into an
outbraking pass without slowing so quick they plow into me. Then I will
NOT fight them into the corner. Mind you: this is in practice, or if I
am lapped for any reason. If it's for position, the better earn it: no
freebies.
If I want to pass, I will try to get as good a run as possible onto a
straight leading to a clear braking zone. Then I try to make the pass as
solid as possible under braking, while still leaving me in control *for
the inside lane.* No slide jobs if I can help it. That gives someone
enough track to run on and not go off. This all needs to take place with
someone who understands they are being passed by a faster car. If not,
well, you know the possible result... if they chop down hard or slow
unexpectedly in a strange place, sometimes there is nothing you can
do... :-(
--Dave
> On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:46:36 +0100, Paul Jones
> >having to switch lines to pass you. On a straight, you should pull off line at
> >full tilt and, provided that they have not done the same, ease off the throttle
> >to let them pass without getting out of their stride. On a corner where you can
> >run wide safely, do so, but otherwise on exit run inside the racing line hugging
> >the inside of the corner so that they can take the natural exit and not lose any
> >speed. If necessary move off the track. Under NO circumstances should a lappe
> >race the lapper as has often happened to me.
> Hmmm, you have to let someone pass, you don't have to***up your
> own race at the same time.
> I will let someone lap me when it is mutually convenient to do so, I
> certainly won't back way off, swing offline or take a slower line
> around a corner unless it causes me no damage to do so. Slightly
> backing out of the throttle on a straight will be enough to let
> someone slingshot past, and every circuit has several positions where
> this is possible.
> >If everyone followed this etiquette then the lapper would never deviate from
> >his/her line and the only person to lose time would be the lappee - which is how
> >it should be.
> No, that's not how it should be. I'm racing too, and while the leader
> might be a country mile ahead of second I could be involved in an
> "every second counts" struggle to catch the guy in front. No "rules"
> are necessary if both people use common-sense and have their wits
> about them. If another car is close behind the leader chances are he's
> in a fight - let him through quick and let the other guy through at
> the same time (if close enough) or very soon afterwards. If there's
> no-one behind then hold your line and help him pass somewhere
> appropriate where you both lose minimal time - suddenly backing off,
> swinging offline or whatever will take both of you out and is not to
> be recommended.
> Cheers!
> John
I think it's every driver's responsibility to know which position they're in,
and to know the time difference to the driver infront and to the driver
behind. If you're driving 5sec
infront of driver behind you, then if suddenly a car shows up your gearbox and
you're shown a blue flag, you either went wide on the green stuff and
recovered just infront of the driver to which you had 5sec gap or you are
being lapped. It's that simple.
Also, it's nice if the passed driver would pick his line and stick to it. I
died once in Monza while leading the race when I was trying to outbrake the
backmarker into Parabolica on the inside.I picked the inner line for the
corner and suddenly, about a second before the braking point the driver
infront decided to veer infront of me, thus braking on the same portion of the
track. At first I was confused and I thought it was a warp or something, just
to be convinced few moments later that that wasn't warping at all :o)
There should be some sort of sim-racing school or something that would hand
out driver's licenses, something like Sim-FIA ;o)
It's nice to race in league races and NTT championship, drivers there know
what to do in most cases ... -=B-)
Not to mention the 200 heat beat in the 1st lap in those races...uff...
Cheers,
Tadej
> >If he *is* much faster, he shouldn't have a problem getting around me,
> >especially on the straights. How many times have *you* been lapped? How
> >many of those times did you know for sure that you were about to be
> >lapped?
> If he is much faster it will still be a heck of a lot easier to pass
> you if you're working with him to make it happen. Chances are if you
> force someone to fight for the pass they'll be agitated to get by and
> on with the race, not to mention thinking (rightly) that you should
> let them by. More than likely you'll both end up in the rails and
> losing a barrowload more time.
> As for knowing if I'm getting lapped, only once or twice and I soon
> realised. When you see the guy behind you showing on the pit board as
> a lap down then the leader is coming up on you. There are many ways to
> know, and in any case your comment wasn't related to recognising if
> the leader was behind you or not, rather to do with how to react once
> you've ascertained that it IS him.
> >Like I said, I'm not as interested in absolute realism as I am in making
> >the sim a better online experience. Maybe if they made the blue flag
> >wave if you're about to be lapped, and be still if there's simply a car
> >following closely. Even that would be better than guessing all the time.
> Again I agree, but each person view of what is important differs and
> in this case Papy's is the definitive one. I'd prefer an "online
> racing simulator" which tweaks absolute realism somewhat to make life
> easier.
> Cheers!
> John
Come up behind a car that is several seconds slower
a lap - he won't back off on the straights. After
following for a short while, I set up a perfect
pass (enter turn high, cut down low and come under
him on the exit with a full head of steam). Half
the time, the lapper will get too hot on the gas
coming out of the turn trying to race me, and
will oversteer straight down into me.
Seems like too many people aren't able to consider
different strategies in a passing situation because
they don't have basic car control skills to begin
with.
--
------------------------------------------------------
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html
------------------------------------------------------
I'd much rather pass a car that stays to the racing line than one that unexpectedly
decides to "do me a favor" and pulls off line and slows... There's no way humanly
possible to predict just when someone will move over, I'd much rather they hold to
their line and let ME decide when to go around.
By the same token, when I'm being lapped, I'll hold to the line, and when the
overtaker gets close I'll let him out accelerate me out of a corner. I lose minimal
time that way, and the overtaker gets a clean pass on a straight.
Trips
% Like I said, I'm not as interested in absolute realism as I am in making
% the sim a better online experience. Maybe if they made the blue flag
% wave if you're about to be lapped, and be still if there's simply a car
% following closely. Even that would be better than guessing all the time.
In GPL under race conditions you are always presented a blue flag if you
are about to be lapped. However, the car has to be close enough to you
and there has to be a marshall at that part of the track. During
practice you are presented a blue flag anytime a car is close enough to
you to be gaining. The only time during a race that you may see a blue
flag when you are not about to be lapped is when someone is crossing the
S/F on their final lap. It seems to be a minor bug in GPL that will
have all the marshalls waving flags when the checkered is being shown.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The rule in racing is to drive with your vision focused beyond where you
are going. This is even more important when starting. Too many people
are concentrating on passing the car in front of them and not watching
what is happening further up the grid. I've been rear-ended or
side-swiped way too many times on the starts because I am letting off
slightly because of an incident (or an impending one) up ahead.
The same is true under normal racing conditions. Most of the accidents
that I have been involved in (when not of my own accord) are when I am
either slowing because of yellow flag conditions or when I am
approaching slower traffic. You can't race properly if you are only
concentrating on the car or spot directly ahead of you. Racing is just
like air-combat -- situational awareness!
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The suggestion about out-accelerating is a GREAT one... very easily done
and with minimal time loss, like you say.
--Dave
> While I agree with you in that a "lappee" should NEVER try to race the overtaking
> driver, I disagree about moving over for the faster car.
> I'd much rather pass a car that stays to the racing line than one that unexpectedly
> decides to "do me a favor" and pulls off line and slows... There's no way humanly
> possible to predict just when someone will move over, I'd much rather they hold to
> their line and let ME decide when to go around.
> By the same token, when I'm being lapped, I'll hold to the line, and when the
> overtaker gets close I'll let him out accelerate me out of a corner. I lose minimal
> time that way, and the overtaker gets a clean pass on a straight.
> Trips
> > I disagree here. I see letting a lapper through as soon as possible as a prime
> > directive. It's largely because so many drivers don't get out of the way that
> > the lappers are now used to pulling off line to overtake. It is also why so many
> > accidents happen when the lappee actually does the right thing and moves aside.
> > You usually get the blue well before they are right on top of your gear box
> > which gives you time to get out of their way before you they are committed to
> > having to switch lines to pass you. On a straight, you should pull off line at
> > full tilt and, provided that they have not done the same, ease off the throttle
> > to let them pass without getting out of their stride. On a corner where you can
> > run wide safely, do so, but otherwise on exit run inside the racing line hugging
> > the inside of the corner so that they can take the natural exit and not lose any
> > speed. If necessary move off the track. Under NO circumstances should a lappe
> > race the lapper as has often happened to me.
> > If everyone followed this etiquette then the lapper would never deviate from
> > his/her line and the only person to lose time would be the lappee - which is how
> > it should be. There would also be fewer accidents since both parties would know
> > the form.
> > It is often the case that, through accidents and the like, that the lapper is
> > only a little bit faster than the lappee and if lappees continue to drive their
> > own sweet race, then the lapper can be held up for a long time or else cause an
> > accident by attempting a crazy manoeuvre born out of frustration. It's only a
> > pity that GPL doesn't give blue flag infringements a stop/go penalty for
> > ignoring 4 blues as happens in modern Formula 1.
> > I say all this from a the point of view of someone who is lapped more often than
> > he is lapped. However it is so frustrating when people carry on through blue
> > flags just as if it were a member of the crowd waving support.
> > Cheers,
> > Paul
Mark
>--
>**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Hi Folks!
> This question has probably been asked many times before but...
> What is the best way of dealing with other cars in GPL online?
> I'm not the fastest driver online by any means, not the slowest either so I
> often end up mid pack... Below is a summary of my racing ethics... Do you
> agree or disagree?
> 1) Faster car behind me... racing for position.
> I keep my line at all times, it's up to the car behind to get overtake
> properly even if he is faster than me. Once he has pulled out to overtake,
> when we reach the braking zone for the next corner, IF he is BESIDE me I
> will brake a little early so I can slot in behind him smoothly and maybe get
> a tow on the next straight. IF he is only half way up the side of me I brake
> as normal but go deep, leaving enough room for us to go through side by
> side. IF he hasn't made the move and isn't beside me at all I stick to my
> line.
Generally if a driver approaches from behind and I notice he's gaining very fast
on me, I dont give him any problems passing me. This is for position, but if
he's lapping me, bound to happen sometime :o), I think I will do one of two
things; before a long straight I make my exit less good than normal making it
possible for him to easy slipstream me, once he changes line on the straight, I
ease off if necessary to let him by safely, for shorter straights I exit the
turn keeping the inside letting the other driver pass on the outside.
We have to keep in mind that warping is a big factor here and because of it a
lapping car may not be able to get very close, so give the driver a break, will
you :o). Winning is not that important... yet :o).
/Christer
--
http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).
Mark
>I'd much rather pass a car that stays to the racing line than one that
unexpectedly
>decides to "do me a favor" and pulls off line and slows... There's no way
humanly
>possible to predict just when someone will move over, I'd much rather they
hold to
>their line and let ME decide when to go around.
>By the same token, when I'm being lapped, I'll hold to the line, and when
the
>overtaker gets close I'll let him out accelerate me out of a corner. I lose
minimal
>time that way, and the overtaker gets a clean pass on a straight.
>Trips
>> I disagree here. I see letting a lapper through as soon as possible as a
prime
>> directive. It's largely because so many drivers don't get out of the way
that
>> the lappers are now used to pulling off line to overtake. It is also why
so many
>> accidents happen when the lappee actually does the right thing and moves
aside.
>> You usually get the blue well before they are right on top of your gear
box
>> which gives you time to get out of their way before you they are
committed to
>> having to switch lines to pass you. On a straight, you should pull off
line at
>> full tilt and, provided that they have not done the same, ease off the
throttle
>> to let them pass without getting out of their stride. On a corner where
you can
>> run wide safely, do so, but otherwise on exit run inside the racing line
hugging
>> the inside of the corner so that they can take the natural exit and not
lose any
>> speed. If necessary move off the track. Under NO circumstances should a
lappe
>> race the lapper as has often happened to me.
>> If everyone followed this etiquette then the lapper would never deviate
from
>> his/her line and the only person to lose time would be the lappee - which
is how
>> it should be. There would also be fewer accidents since both parties
would know
>> the form.
>> It is often the case that, through accidents and the like, that the
lapper is
>> only a little bit faster than the lappee and if lappees continue to drive
their
>> own sweet race, then the lapper can be held up for a long time or else
cause an
>> accident by attempting a crazy manoeuvre born out of frustration. It's
only a
>> pity that GPL doesn't give blue flag infringements a stop/go penalty for
>> ignoring 4 blues as happens in modern Formula 1.
>> I say all this from a the point of view of someone who is lapped more
often than
>> he is lapped. However it is so frustrating when people carry on through
blue
>> flags just as if it were a member of the crowd waving support.
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
Frank
Francois Dubuc,
Simulator ***world,
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***world/
Trips
Jesse
|So you're gaining on me down the front straight at Monza... approaching
Curva
|Grande, you see "Pass Right" flash on screen. How do you determine if I
sent
|that, or if someone else is telling the car behind HIM to pass at some
other
|portion of the track?
|
|Trips
|
|
|> There will always be disagreements and grey areas when we discuss this
|> topic. The only constructive way that would resolve this issue IMO would
|> involve a patch. Assign two hot keys to text messages. I.E. Pass left and
|> Pass right. So simple I must be a genius :-)
|
--
Anssi Lehtinen