rec.autos.simulators

by **Tracey A Mille** » Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:00:00

This thread reminds of the guy that got fired a couple years ago for
using the word ***rdly (stingy) in a speech. It didn't matter that
what he said had nothing to do with what the under-educated listeners
thought he said. They were offended, so he got fired.

All Andy said was that your opinion was ubiquitous (widespread) and
promulgated (proclaimed) by people who had received free units from
TSW and/or had never even tried an ECCI.

What that implies isn't that *you* had received a free unit, but that
you had heard that "unbiased" opinion from so many people you had come
to believe it.

The only thing he really accused you of is not having tried an ECCI.
I'm sure if you told him whose unit you had tried, Andy could call
that customer of his and verify that you had tried one of his
products.

Then he might feel obligated to apologize, but not for questioning
your ethics but for questioning the source of your opinion; personal
experience or something you had read from a biased source on a web
site.

> Considering the number of emails i received, I and many others
interpreted
> it that way. Him apologizing and clearing that fact up would have
solved
> it.

> --
> Scott B. Husted
> ICQ #4395450

> Editor in Chief
> PowerSims.com

> > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in
exchange
> for
> > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have.

> > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars
for
> liking
> > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I
wasn't
> just
> > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a
> whopping
> > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich).

> > David G Fisher

> > > AndyCers,

> > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these
accusations
> > against
> > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did
of a TSW
> > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can
be
> > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more
> > responsible
> > > before accusing a specific person of these actions.

> > > --
> > > Scott B. Husted
> > > ICQ #4395450

> > > Editor in Chief
> > > PowerSims.com

> > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just
because
> > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they
must
> have
> > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I,
for
> one,
> > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having
no
> > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's
comments.

> > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this
would
> > > > require more
> > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially
given that
> it
> > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market.

by **Todd Dr** » Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I think this whole thread is absolutely hilarious. I can't stop reading and
laughing.

Consumer game controllers are in a state of transition to USB and FF. Who
wants to go back to the drawing board if they don't have to?

Retail is a major pain in the ass because of consumer attitudes. But the
crappy consumer attitudes were created by the idiot retailers so who do you
blame?

Given the current state of retail, if ECCI has the commercial accounts to
pull out more power to them. Who could blame anyone for doing so?

Andy seems a little pissed about tactics employed by TSW. He has a right to
be pissed even though it's a road to nowhere not to mention a waste of time
and energy. TSW can't compete on merit, that's a given. The ECCI is
obviously a superior product. I own two TSW's, I consider them a better
VALUE.

> Did ECCI pay you to say that? :o)

> Roger

> > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in
> exchange for
> > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have.

> > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars for
> liking
> > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I wasn't
> just
> > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a
> whopping
> > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich).

> > David G Fisher

> > > AndyCers,

> > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these accusations
> > against
> > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did of a
> TSW
> > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can be
> > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more
> > responsible
> > > before accusing a specific person of these actions.

> > > --
> > > Scott B. Husted
> > > ICQ #4395450

> > > Editor in Chief
> > > PowerSims.com

> > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just
> because
> > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must
> have
> > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for
> one,
> > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no
> > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's
> comments.

> > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would
> > > > require more
> > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially given
> that it
> > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market.

by **Scott B. Huste** » Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:00:00

This coming from the guy who believes NASCAR Racing 4 was delayed because
all the resources at Papy were working on patches for Grand Prix Legends
<VBG> ;)

If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received
product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he 'meant to
say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a
reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup.

As I stated before Tracey, a simple apology for the wording of his post
would have been suffice. For whatever reason, Andy felt he could not do
so.

Also, as I agree with you about the situation using the word '***rdly'.
However, anyone who uses that word in a public forum is ignorant for
thinking they could say that and get away with a word like that (a majority
of people who hear it won't know what it means and take it wrong) which
could be used as an excuse for a public outcry in our politically correct
environment the media has going for us.

Lastly, this point is moot. I simply stated my opinion on the market for a
$1,500 analog wheel among sim racers. Andy made a post that was worded to
insinuate lack of character on my part. I replied and believed I was owed
an apology. Its obvious I won't get one so there is no point in continuing
this thread.

However, I will always defend myself when my integrity it attacked on any
level for simply stating my opinion. Intentional or otherwise.

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com

> This thread reminds of the guy that got fired a couple years ago for
> using the word ***rdly (stingy) in a speech. It didn't matter that
> what he said had nothing to do with what the under-educated listeners
> thought he said. They were offended, so he got fired.

> All Andy said was that your opinion was ubiquitous (widespread) and
> promulgated (proclaimed) by people who had received free units from
> TSW and/or had never even tried an ECCI.

> What that implies isn't that *you* had received a free unit, but that
> you had heard that "unbiased" opinion from so many people you had come
> to believe it.

> The only thing he really accused you of is not having tried an ECCI.
> I'm sure if you told him whose unit you had tried, Andy could call
> that customer of his and verify that you had tried one of his
> products.

> Then he might feel obligated to apologize, but not for questioning
> your ethics but for questioning the source of your opinion; personal
> experience or something you had read from a biased source on a web
> site.

> > Considering the number of emails i received, I and many others
> interpreted
> > it that way. Him apologizing and clearing that fact up would have
> solved
> > it.

> > --
> > Scott B. Husted
> > ICQ #4395450

> > Editor in Chief
> > PowerSims.com

> > > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in
> exchange
> > for
> > > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have.

> > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars
> for
> > liking
> > > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I
> wasn't
> > just
> > > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a
> > whopping
> > > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich).

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > AndyCers,

> > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these
> accusations
> > > against
> > > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did
> of a TSW
> > > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can
> be
> > > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more
> > > responsible
> > > > before accusing a specific person of these actions.

> > > > --
> > > > Scott B. Husted
> > > > ICQ #4395450

> > > > Editor in Chief
> > > > PowerSims.com

> > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just
> because
> > > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they
> must
> > have
> > > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I,
> for
> > one,
> > > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having
> no
> > > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's
> comments.

> > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this
> would
> > > > > require more
> > > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially
> given that
> > it
> > > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market.

by **Tracey A Mille** » Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Yeah, that sums it up pretty well, but I can't really blame Andy for
being "pissed", reading review after review saying "ECCI quality at
1/3 the price" must drive him crazy.

> I think this whole thread is absolutely hilarious. I can't stop
reading and
> laughing.

> Consumer game controllers are in a state of transition to USB and
FF. Who
> wants to go back to the drawing board if they don't have to?

> Retail is a major pain in the ass because of consumer attitudes. But
the
> crappy consumer attitudes were created by the idiot retailers so who
do you
> blame?

> Given the current state of retail, if ECCI has the commercial
accounts to
> pull out more power to them. Who could blame anyone for doing so?

> Andy seems a little pissed about tactics employed by TSW. He has a
right to
> be pissed even though it's a road to nowhere not to mention a waste
of time
> and energy. TSW can't compete on merit, that's a given. The ECCI is
> obviously a superior product. I own two TSW's, I consider them a
better
> VALUE.

> > Did ECCI pay you to say that? :o)

> > Roger

> > > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in
> > exchange for
> > > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have.

> > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s.
regulars for
> > liking
> > > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I
wasn't
> > just
> > > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get
a
> > whopping
> > > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich).

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > AndyCers,

> > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these
accusations
> > > against
> > > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I
did of a
> > TSW
> > > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals
can be
> > > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be
more
> > > responsible
> > > > before accusing a specific person of these actions.

> > > > --
> > > > Scott B. Husted
> > > > ICQ #4395450

> > > > Editor in Chief
> > > > PowerSims.com

> > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that
just
> > because
> > > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product,
they must
> > have
> > > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments.
I, for
> > one,
> > > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having
no
> > > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's
> > comments.

> > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this
would
> > > > > require more
> > > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially
given
> > that it
> > > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market.

by **Joeri Co** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Scott,

Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in
capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it
*kills* your reputation as a reviewer.
---
Joeri J. Cox
J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253
Proud co-founder of 502 Racing

European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl

by **Scott B. Huste** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You're right Joeri... the ECCI pedals are exact duplicates of the pedals
they use in Mercedes.

I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a Mercedes plowing a field.
--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com

> Scott,

> Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in
> capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it
> *kills* your reputation as a reviewer.
> ---
> Joeri J. Cox
> J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253
> Proud co-founder of 502 Racing

> European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl

> > If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received
> > product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he 'meant
> to
> > say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a
> > reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup.

by **Ian** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Eldred, you may like to know that its not necessarily the quality of the
components which makes people fast. Most of the fastlaps in GPL are done by
people with low spec wheels, I know for a fact that one of the fastest GPL
drivers uses an old TM GP1 !!!!!!
You may as well keep your cash in your wallet, speed comes from practice not
fancy gadgets <G>

--
Ian P
<E-mail address invalid due to spam>

> Eldred - who would be PISSED at still being slow with an ECCI...
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net

by **AndyCer** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Mr. Husted,

Jusy FYI, the pedals you are calling '1949 tractor pedals' were
engineered for superior comfort in long distance racing, not to 'look
like' the pedals in a car. Their design evolved with input from many top
sim-racers as well as Labonte Racing. Both of the Labonte brothers
provided their input and both own CDS4000 based simulators. I'm not sure
if Terry Labonte is using his to plow his field.

Andy Cers
ECCI

> You're right Joeri... the ECCI pedals are exact duplicates of the pedals
> they use in Mercedes.

> I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a Mercedes plowing a field.
> --
> Scott B. Husted
> ICQ #4395450

> Editor in Chief
> PowerSims.com

> > Scott,

> > Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in
> > capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it
> > *kills* your reputation as a reviewer.
> > ---
> > Joeri J. Cox
> > J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253
> > Proud co-founder of 502 Racing

> > European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl

> > > If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received
> > > product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he 'meant
> > to
> > > say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a
> > > reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup.

by **AndyCer** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Ian,

You are correct in stating that it is not necessarily the quality of the
components which makes a driver fast. Speed does come primarily from
developing mastery through practice. However, equipment can play a role
in competition between equally skilled drivers, in simulation racing as
well as the real thing. A skilled professional driver in a F3000 car can
easily embarrass a lesser driver in an F1 car. When drivers of equal
skill compete, equipment becomes a significant factor. The mark of a
truly skilled driver is the ability to maximize the potential of the
equipment used. In simulation racing, this also applies. Drivers who are
not pushing the limits already will not benefit much from a high-end
controller. The feel of the experience will be better for every user.
But only those with the talent and drive to begin with will go
appreciably faster.

To go back to why we have chosen to focus on our commercial business
exclusively is that the promise of sanctioned, publicly promoted
simulation racing has not come to be. The NROS in 1998 was the closest
yet. The environment becomes more and more competitive with national
exposure and the potential of 'making a living' at sim-racing becomes
less of a fantasy. Without this environment it is less justifiable for
individuals to invest in a $1200+ controller. If the environment were to
change, we may re-address market this in the future.

Thanks to all, and good luck racing.
Andy Cers
ECCI

> Eldred, you may like to know that its not necessarily the quality of the
> components which makes people fast. Most of the fastlaps in GPL are done by
> people with low spec wheels, I know for a fact that one of the fastest GPL
> drivers uses an old TM GP1 !!!!!!
> You may as well keep your cash in your wallet, speed comes from practice not
> fancy gadgets <G>

> --
> Ian P
> <E-mail address invalid due to spam>

> > Eldred - who would be PISSED at still being slow with an ECCI...
> > --
> > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net

by **Scott B. Huste** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Now this is a logical post. I agree and its truly sad that the promise of
sanctioned sim racing never materialized, or at the very least has yet to
materialize.

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com

by **Joeri Co** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You're avoiding the main point Scott, that of a reviewer severely damaging
his reputation by making *fun* of a product's *looks*.
---
Joeri J. Cox
J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253
Proud co-founder of 502 Racing

European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl

> You're right Joeri... the ECCI pedals are exact duplicates of the pedals
> they use in Mercedes.

> I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a Mercedes plowing a field.
> --
> Scott B. Husted
> ICQ #4395450

> Editor in Chief
> PowerSims.com

> > Scott,

> > Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in
> > capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it
> > *kills* your reputation as a reviewer.
> > ---
> > Joeri J. Cox
> > J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253
> > Proud co-founder of 502 Racing

> > European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl

> > > If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received
> > > product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he
'meant
> > to
> > > say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a
> > > reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup.

by **Greg Cisk** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Yeah... That is almost as bad as if some ECCI guy would come and
post in the NG and slam TSW or something...

--

by **Greg Cisk** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Expecially if they can invest less than $200 for a quality FF USB
wheel.

I guess we won't be seeing you much then.

--

by **Scott B. Huste** » Mon, 05 Jun 2000 04:00:00

No, the point is in my opinion the pedals remind me of the pedals on my
grandfathers tractor. My opinion. If they reminded me of the pedals in my
spec racer, or my s2000, or my GT-1, or any other vehicle... I would have
said so.

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com

by **ymenar** » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>>I grew up around cars and racing. Its in my *** <G> I still get

e***d driving into the Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, or Porsche dealership!
Although I laugh at these 'little' sports cars. Like the Porsche Boxster.

Mesa disagree! The joy of small light sports cars is something as thrilling
as those big cars will ever give in my opinion. Boxsters, MG's, Fiat
Sportscars, all them minis give to me much more fun than any sports-type
cars. I feel the car much more. I like it that way! Of course I enjoy big
boxes (you'll have to agree with me Volvo's are a blast to drive) but give
me a Fiat 500 any day and I'll drive it until the engine explodes :)

So... SHUT UP SCOTT <vbg> ;-D

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

rec.autos.simulators

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers