rec.autos.simulators

> AndyCers,

> I resent your comments and your insinuations.

> 1) TSW has never given me a wheel
> 2) I do not own a TSW
> 2) I HAVE used both the TSW and ECCI for extended periods of time
> 3) I don't like the 1949 FORD TRACTOR PEDALS that are used on the ECCI for
> $1,500 (MY OPINION)
> 4) I feel the TSW provides more comparable options for 1/2 to 1/3 the
price
> and at or near the same quality. (MY OPINION)

> "My opinions."

> As I stated, it was my opinion and my opinion is not bought or sold.
Unlike
> many sites and groups out there who cave into the manufacturer or
developer
> because they received the product, I state my opinion regardless.  If TSW
> had given me a wheel for free, why would I state that I use an ACT-LABS
> FORCE RS and RS SHIFTER ????

> Biased and naive was the post you just made.

> --
> Scott B. Husted
> ICQ #4395450

> Editor in Chief
> PowerSims.com

> > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would
> buy a
> > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel
from
> TSW
> > > for a few hundred bucks.  Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and
RS
> > > Shifter <VBG>

> > > Scott
> > > PA-Scott
> > > PowerSims.com

> > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't
> > > updated
> > > > for ages.  Technically, all the market for people who want quality
> wheels
> > > > was reached.  Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like
> this
> > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so
years,
> and
> > > > keep them in business.

> > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it
is
> > > > indeed a great wheel.  You could still buy second-hand units ;)

> > > > --
> > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> > > realise
> > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to
> > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a
> > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who
> > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased
> > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive,
> > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in
> > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

> > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a
> > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and
> > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of
> > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional
> > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions
> > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again
> > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run
> > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general
> > public.

> > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our
> > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers
> > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and
> > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we
> > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems
> > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned
> > quality-heads".

> > Andy Cers
> > ECCI

> My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy
a
> $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from
TSW
> for a few hundred bucks.  Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS
> Shifter <VBG>

> Scott
> PA-Scott
> PowerSims.com

> > http://www.ecci.net/

> > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't
> updated
> > for ages.  Technically, all the market for people who want quality
wheels
> > was reached.  Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this
> > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years,
and
> > keep them in business.

> > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is
> > indeed a great wheel.  You could still buy second-hand units ;)

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.WeRace.net
> > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> realise
> > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would
buy a
> > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from
TSW
> > for a few hundred bucks.  Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS
> > Shifter <VBG>

> > Scott
> > PA-Scott
> > PowerSims.com

> > > http://www.ecci.net/

> > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't
> > updated
> > > for ages.  Technically, all the market for people who want quality
wheels
> > > was reached.  Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like
this
> > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years,
and
> > > keep them in business.

> > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is
> > > indeed a great wheel.  You could still buy second-hand units ;)

> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > -- http://www.WeRace.net
> > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> > realise
> > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to
> focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a
> few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who
> have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased
> review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive,
> opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in
> comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

> It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a
> reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and
> production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of
> the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional
> quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions
> regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again
> produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run
> commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general
> public.

> Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our
> competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers
> have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and
> quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we
> have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems
> to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned
> quality-heads".

> Andy Cers
> ECCI

> Well, I guess I can come out of the closet on the ECCI pedals now. I'm
sure
> they work good, but I though I was the only one who thought they looked
like
> tractor pedals. Do those wheels come with cup holders and an 8 track tape
> player?

> Now, Scott, where can I get me one of them free TSW wheels  ;-)

> --
> Slot

> Tweaks & Reviews
> www.slottweak.com

> > AndyCers,

> > I resent your comments and your insinuations.

> > 1) TSW has never given me a wheel
> > 2) I do not own a TSW
> > 2) I HAVE used both the TSW and ECCI for extended periods of time
> > 3) I don't like the 1949 FORD TRACTOR PEDALS that are used on the ECCI
for
> > $1,500 (MY OPINION)
> > 4) I feel the TSW provides more comparable options for 1/2 to 1/3 the
> price
> > and at or near the same quality. (MY OPINION)

> > "My opinions."

> > As I stated, it was my opinion and my opinion is not bought or sold.
> Unlike
> > many sites and groups out there who cave into the manufacturer or
> developer
> > because they received the product, I state my opinion regardless.  If
TSW
> > had given me a wheel for free, why would I state that I use an ACT-LABS
> > FORCE RS and RS SHIFTER ????

> > Biased and naive was the post you just made.

> > --
> > Scott B. Husted
> > ICQ #4395450

> > Editor in Chief
> > PowerSims.com

> > > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I
would
> > buy a
> > > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel
> from
> > TSW
> > > > for a few hundred bucks.  Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and
> RS
> > > > Shifter <VBG>

> > > > Scott
> > > > PA-Scott
> > > > PowerSims.com

> > > > > http://www.ecci.net/

> > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website
wasn't
> > > > updated
> > > > > for ages.  Technically, all the market for people who want quality
> > wheels
> > > > > was reached.  Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies
like
> > this
> > > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so
> years,
> > and
> > > > > keep them in business.

> > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and
it
> is
> > > > > indeed a great wheel.  You could still buy second-hand units ;)

> > > > > --
> > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net
> > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they
don't
> > > > realise
> > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> > > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen
to
> > > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for
a
> > > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who
> > > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased
> > > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet
naive,
> > > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in
> > > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

> > > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a
> > > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and
> > > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of
> > > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional
> > > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions
> > > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may
again
> > > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run
> > > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general
> > > public.

> > > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our
> > > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial
customers
> > > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance
and
> > > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we
> > > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch"
seems
> > > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned
> > > quality-heads".

> > > Andy Cers
> > > ECCI

> Ok, I admit I missed the first part of this discussion.  However, Andy
seems to
> have an attitude towards certain consumers.  Some people won't buy the
ECCI
> products simply because of the price.  $1500?!?  I didn't pay that much
for my
> first CAR...  Others might want quality products, but don't feel the need
for a
> $1500 device.  I finally paid $350 or so for a TSW.  I didn't have any way
to
> test an ECCI.  I don't know anyone locally who has one.  Even so, there's
no
> *way* I'm going to spend $1500 on a computer wheel.  I don't care if if
came
> from Ferrari themselves.  It seems that Mr. Cers doesn't feel the need to
> listen to consumers who don't want to (or can't) spend that much money.
Not
> good business PR, in my opinion.

> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

> Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>Mr. Pickett,

>I didn't know (dear friend) that you had a TSW.  I sure would (good buddy)
>like to try one.  I'm in Troy; (o'pal o' mine) if you'd like to get
>together.

>Rick
>(I feel safe.  I know you wouldn't argue with me.)

>Without getting into the "which one is better" discussion but I will tell
>you that I recently purchased a TSW for my son. I spent the better part of 2
>days using it and comparing it to my CDS 4000. While I will admit that for
>the money the TSW is a fine unit and serves the same function as the ECCI,
>there is a huge difference in quality. As far as ECCI goes, MY next wheel
>had I ever needed one would have been an ECCI. My son likes his TSW and will
>get alot of use out of it, but if he had the choice.......you can guess from
>there. I would also like to thank Dave Thomas for getting the unit to me in
>less than 2 weeks. Thats a big improvement over the old 4 to 5 month wait.

> > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just because
> > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must have
> > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for one,
> > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no
> > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's comments.

> We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would
> require more
> energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially given that it
> is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market.

> I have absolutely NO respect for a company that will publicly defame
> its competitors. If your product is truly superior to TSW's then you
> shouldn't have to resort to those types of tactics. I am glad that I
> have never given ECCI any of my money.