rec.autos.simulators

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

AndyCer

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by AndyCer » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Mr. Husted,

Your original statement is still bogus. And I stand by my original
response verbatim. This is a general statement, not a specific
accusation.
If anyone else chooses to interpret it as you have then so be it.
Both are copied below if anyone cares. This will be my final
communication on this matter.

If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could
not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard
from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to
send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business
away
from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys.

In the online racing world, we have heard of dozens of free TSW units
given
in return for promotional considerations, often using statements nearly
identical to yours below. We know of this because we frequently receive
requests for free units from those whose buddies have received free TSWs
wondering why we don't do the same. I have also received over the years
numerous offers of positive reviews in exchange for a 'gratuity' unit,
several from prominent on-line simracing sites. We have never in our
history given a unit in exchange for such coverage.

Here are the original communications: <EOM>


AndyCers originally responded:

Goy Larse

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Goy Larse » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> Well, I guess I can come out of the closet on the ECCI pedals now. I'm sure
> they work good, but I though I was the only one who thought they looked like
> tractor pedals. Do those wheels come with cup holders and an 8 track tape
> player?

Anyone say pedals ?

http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/lakewood/Redline2.htm

Nigel Nichols for president !! :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

David L. Coo

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by David L. Coo » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00


>If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could
>not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard
>from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to
>send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business
>away from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys.

Welcome to the real world - Heh.  It's "dog eat dog" out there.  If TE can gain
market share by giving away their controllers, then hat's off to them.

Your comment about the lack of interest in ECCI since the death of NROS in a
previous post is a cop out IMO.  You guys are reeling, and you just can't admit
it.  Any night on WON there are probably more on-line racers than there ever were
on TEN, so your comment means nothing.

Bottom line - No Force Feedback.  No Retail business.  Your done as far as we're
concerned so you won't be missed.  Asta'.

--David Cook

Mike Grand

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Mike Grand » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Please don't generalize your opinions to include everyone. There will always be loyal ECCI supporters in the sim community. Everyone including yourself is entitled to their opinions, but don't insinuate everyones is the same. This has always been a sensative subject on the NG.

Michael K. Grandy Sr

Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team

Powered by ECCI
"ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals"
The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers

NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS:

Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series

Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series

Member of the National Invitational Series
The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises



  >If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could
  >not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard
  >from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to
  >send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business
  >away from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys.

  Welcome to the real world - Heh.  It's "dog eat dog" out there.  If TE can gain
  market share by giving away their controllers, then hat's off to them.

  Your comment about the lack of interest in ECCI since the death of NROS in a
  previous post is a cop out IMO.  You guys are reeling, and you just can't admit
  it.  Any night on WON there are probably more on-line racers than there ever were
  on TEN, so your comment means nothing.

  Bottom line - No Force Feedback.  No Retail business.  Your done as far as we're
  concerned so you won't be missed.  Asta'.

  --David Cook

Eldre

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Eldre » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00


writes:

>Mr. Husted,

>Your original statement is still bogus. And I stand by my original
>response verbatim. This is a general statement, not a specific
>accusation.
>If anyone else chooses to interpret it as you have then so be it.
>Both are copied below if anyone cares. This will be my final
>communication on this matter.

>If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could
>not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard
>from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to
>send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business
>away
>from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys.

>In the online racing world, we have heard of dozens of free TSW units
>given
>in return for promotional considerations, often using statements nearly
>identical to yours below. We know of this because we frequently receive
>requests for free units from those whose buddies have received free TSWs
>wondering why we don't do the same. I have also received over the years
>numerous offers of positive reviews in exchange for a 'gratuity' unit,
>several from prominent on-line simracing sites. We have never in our
>history given a unit in exchange for such coverage.

>Here are the original communications: <EOM>


>> My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a
>> $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW
>> for a few hundred bucks.

>AndyCers originally responded:
>> This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to
>> focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a
>> few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who
>> have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased
>> review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive,
>> opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in
>> comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

Some people will always buy top of the line - they want it 'just because', and
they have money to burn.  I would guess that those people made up the bulk of
your customers.  Unfortunately, most of us need to spend our limited funds more
'responsibly'.  Which means that your products are out of range...
I still don't understand how you could assume that Scott received a free wheel
from his statement.  If you really think that your message wouldn't be
interpreted in that manner, then *you're* the one who's naive.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Own Grand Prix Legends?   http://www.vroc.net

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Mike Grand

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Mike Grand » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You're right Eldred. I bought mine just because, just because it was the best wheel on the market and since I spent a good many hours using an ECCI over the last 4 years it turned out to be a good responsible investment. I have tried almost every wheel available in the US and find it to be most suitable for my driving style. I also drive an $800 car that I've had for over 3 years. I actually use my ECCI more than I use my car, so I guess it was as good an investment as my car.

Michael K. Grandy Sr

Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team

Powered by ECCI
"ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals"
The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers

NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS:

Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series

Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series

Member of the National Invitational Series
The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises



  >Mr. Husted,
  >
  >Your original statement is still bogus. And I stand by my original
  >response verbatim. This is a general statement, not a specific
  >accusation.
  >If anyone else chooses to interpret it as you have then so be it.
  >Both are copied below if anyone cares. This will be my final
  >communication on this matter.
  >
  >If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could
  >not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard
  >from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to
  >send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business
  >away
  >from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys.
  >
  >In the online racing world, we have heard of dozens of free TSW units
  >given
  >in return for promotional considerations, often using statements nearly
  >identical to yours below. We know of this because we frequently receive
  >requests for free units from those whose buddies have received free TSWs
  >wondering why we don't do the same. I have also received over the years
  >numerous offers of positive reviews in exchange for a 'gratuity' unit,
  >several from prominent on-line simracing sites. We have never in our
  >history given a unit in exchange for such coverage.
  >
  >Here are the original communications: <EOM>
  >

  >> My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a
  >> $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW
  >> for a few hundred bucks.
  >
  >AndyCers originally responded:
  >> This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to
  >> focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a
  >> few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who
  >> have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased
  >> review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive,
  >> opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in
  >> comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

  Some people will always buy top of the line - they want it 'just because', and
  they have money to burn.  I would guess that those people made up the bulk of
  your customers.  Unfortunately, most of us need to spend our limited funds more
  'responsibly'.  Which means that your products are out of range...
  I still don't understand how you could assume that Scott received a free wheel
  from his statement.  If you really think that your message wouldn't be
  interpreted in that manner, then *you're* the one who's naive.

  Eldred
  --
  Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
  Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
  Own Grand Prix Legends?   http://www.vroc.net

  Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
  with experience...
  Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

GTX_SlotCa

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by GTX_SlotCa » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> Your original statement is still bogus.

Doesn't bogus still mean "Counterfeit or fake"? Yea, I just looked it up.
That's still what it means. What's Andy's job, PR for LA adolescents?
Wow, like, ya know, that's just totally bogus. Totally, ya know.

Hmmm... sounds pretty "kewl". Maybe I'll change my writing style.

Okay, seriously. Andy spoke (or typed) before he thought. He believes his
product is better, as he should, and jumped on Scott's remarks,even though
Scott clearly said "My personal opinion only, but..."  . Now in typical PR
fashion he's saying that he didn't accuse Scott of taking a wheel in return
for a favorable review. Well, he surely did. It was the reason for his reply
and I'd say that  "received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased
review' " is a pretty strong accusation.
Here's the thing, Andy. You owe Scott an apology, plain and simple. Your
statements were prompted by and aimed at him. You falsely accused him, so
apologize. All will be forgiven and we'll be one big, happy, sim driving
family again. Then if you feel the need, you can explain that, in general,
others have taken free wheels for a favorable review. But then, it's only
fair to tell us who these others are.

Oh, here's another tip, Andy. On this news group, never, ever make a joke
about hurling your cat across the room ;-)

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

Scott B. Huste

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Scott B. Huste » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Andy,

You can disagree with my original statement.  Its your right.  That doesn't
make it bogus.  Its subjective.  I can't disagree that you have the highest
quality TRACTOR pedals on the market. Again, my opinion.

That still does not change the fact that you accused me of receiving a TSW
wheel in return for favorable press in your post.  Again, you should be more
careful how you word your posts if you did not intend to state this.

I guess it was too much to expect a simple apology for your ill worded
'general statement' that can be taken by many as a slanderous post against
me and my review practices.

For your sake, and the sake of your company,  I hope one of you commercial
customers does not disagree with something you say, as your response is
likely to get you a date in court.

Regards,
Scott B. Husted
PowerSims.com

David L. Coo

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by David L. Coo » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

They're done as far as "I'm" concerned (thanks for the correction).  Although I
realize there will always be loyal ECCI supporters, I would venture to guess that
the majority of "us" feel the same.

--David Cook


wrote...

Scott B. Huste

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Scott B. Huste » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Although it was OK for Andy to 'generalize' and 'insinuate' that I received free product from TSW in return for my positive comments regarding their product?

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

  >Your done as far as we're
  >concerned so you won't be missed.  Asta'.

  Please don't generalize your opinions to include everyone. There will always be loyal ECCI supporters in the sim community. Everyone including yourself is entitled to their opinions, but don't insinuate everyones is the same. This has always been a sensative subject on the NG.

Joeri Co

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Joeri Co » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Scott,

If you have to resort to calling pedals TRACTOR pedals I really can't think
too high of your own skills in choosing the right words. It's actually
pretty childish. It really is.

However, regarding the pedals: around here in Europe, where we *know* how to
make quality cars better than anywhere, the bigger the cars get, the more
the accelerator pedal looks and works like your so-called 'tractor pedal'.
The reason behind this is that it's so very comfortable. That's what
producing high-end cars like BMW, Mercedes, Saab, Volvo is all about.
Comfort. So why make fun of a company's pedal design when it's widely known
that it's the most comfortable design around?
---
Joeri J. Cox
J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253
Proud co-founder of 502 Racing

European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl



Scott B. Huste

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Scott B. Huste » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Joeri,

My grandfather had a 1949 FORD tractor... the pedals on the ECCI remind me
almost exactly what those pedals were like.  I don't prefer to race with
pedals like that.

Also,  I owned Volvo's and drove a 2000 BMW 7 series just last week.  Sorry,
but the pedals in no way, shape or form resemble the ECCI pedals.

The point remains that anyone should feel free about expressing their
opinions without being accused of fraudulent and unethical activities
without any kind of substance behind those accusations.  Everyone also has
the right to disagree with those opinions.

This has never been about the ECCI product.  I never questioned their
quality.  In fact, I think the steering wheel itself is fantastic for an
analog control device.  I only questioned the consumer market for a $1,500
wheel when, IN MY OPINION, there are comparable products available for much,
much less money.  If I was wrong about that ,  I would have a hard time
believing ECCI would be exiting the market.

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

GTX_SlotCa

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by GTX_SlotCa » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

There's something strangely reassuring about a guy who'll spend more on his
sim wheel than he spends on his car. Way to go, Mike ;-)

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

Joeri Co

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Joeri Co » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Think again Dave. The majority of "us" will probably think the same because
this majority can't afford an ECCI. Which is a pity, because this way a
public's opinion of a company would be decided by the income of this public,
which is something on which the company in question doesn't have any
influence.
---
Joeri J. Cox
J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253
Proud co-founder of 502 Racing

European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl



> They're done as far as "I'm" concerned (thanks for the correction).
Although I
> realize there will always be loyal ECCI supporters, I would venture to
guess that
> the majority of "us" feel the same.

> --David Cook




Scott B. Huste

ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

by Scott B. Huste » Sat, 03 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Then there are those among us who drive $20k and above cars and use under
$200 sim racing devices <VBG>  =)

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com



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