rec.autos.simulators

by **Mw421** » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Well, it LOOKS like 35mph, just like soccer LOOKS like no one's exerting any
effort for hours at a time. Besides, carrying this raw number stuff to its
logical conclusion leads to drag racing (the Gs, the ACCELERATION, the TOP
SPEED, the sport of the ADD generation).

Racing, to be ENTERTAINING as opposed to a technogeekfest, should involve a
quantity of cars in proximity to each other, that can be seen for more than 2
seconds every minute and a half.

The admittedly beautiful tracks mentioned above are almost all shadows of
their former selves with ugly additional kinks installed. If these
techno-wonder cars are so great, why not remove the chicanes and let them run?

MW

by **Matthew Knutse** » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> > > All in all, the superiority of F1 is still obvious

> > ...to you perhaps. But its a matter of opinion. Some people felt
> it
> > was OBVIOUS that the world was flat and that Jews and Blacks were
> > inferior races, and would suffer no critique of their position. In
> MY
> > opinion, CART is the best. But that's my opinion. I'm not so
> > intolerable as to come on here and claim that my opinion is the one
> > and only truth or is "obvious".

> > Randy

> How many different chassis in CART? Engines? Etc. How many
> different
> countries involved at all levels? F1 is a true International sport
> whereas CART is still primarily U.S based, though that is changing.

I'd say, technically, they are both dominated by the U.K

Like byrylium brake calippers? Carbon brakes? Gaining downforce in
obviously irrelevant ways? 4 pedals?

Disagree. Lots of different race cars are amazing to watch. 60s F1s, 90s
Cart, 70s Prototypes, Group C etc etc. You don't see much of the
gizmos...:)

In General, the public in the Us are not that into F1. I'll tell you,
as soon as Eurosprt started showing CART and NASCAR here in Norway,
people opened their eyes. BTCC is much more popular here!

Matt,
Race Fan
--

Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars (http://www.racesimcentral.net/~kareknut)

"Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
-Cale Yarborough

by **William Ricahrdso** » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> Racing, to be ENTERTAINING as opposed to a technogeekfest, should involve a
> quantity of cars in proximity to each other, that can be seen for more than 2
> seconds every minute and a half.

This is exactly why the rest of the world has stereo-typed Americans.
Short
little attention spans.

I have to agree with you here... The greatest racing circuits in the
world are
being destroyed little by little. But, as the cars get faster, safety is
more
of a concern. Remember, these rockets are *open***pit* and weigh in
well under
2000 lbs. So try adding a couplea hundred HP to your redneck taxi-cabs,
strip off
the sheetmetal, lose the plexi-glas and remove 2000 pounds of steel and
see how
long that lasts...

Bill
--
"NASCAR- the professional wrestling of motorsport"

by **Jim Sokolof** » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> >I believe it was Hendrick Motorsports ensuring Jeff Gordon's first
> >Winston Cup at the season ender at Atlanta.
> RCR had an 'extra' car in the field for the last race of Earnhardt's
> last champ season, also.

I might want to retract the pinning of that on Hendrick then. My
recollection is vague, and I find it hard to believe that both RCR and
Hendrick would have had to do similar things two years in a row.

In any case, there's absolutely no shame in my book in doing what they
did. After all, NASCAR laid down the rules, and the team strategists
devised a way to ensure a win under those rules in the
situation. That's using their heads, and I applaud rather than
chastise them for it.

---Jim

by **Michael E. Carve** » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

<snip>
% Also, F1 drivers are second to none. Mansell goes CART and bingo.
% Andretti comes to F1 and is simply outclassed completely. Blundell, a
<snip>

And Mansell goes back to F1 and squat..... So your point is?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **hboer** » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> How many different chassis in CART? Engines? Etc. How many different
> countries involved at all levels? F1 is a true International sport

F1 is primarly U.K. based, technology-wise. And the drivers come primarly
from Europe and South-America.

It has already changed(drivers).and there's a Jap engine.

No

Well observed ;-)

Again NOT!

No, the technology has not been developed for the automobile-industry and
science in general. All the new technologies are being developed for one
purpose: WINNING!!That, now and then, a new technology can be used for other
purposes, o.k., but primarly F1 is used as a marketing-tool for
participating manufacturers.

??????To me there's nothing like close wheel to wheel racing. If that can
come together with
high-level technology, that's fine, but otherwise, to hell with technology!
Look at BTCC, it's popularity is primarly based on close door to door
banging. 2 more season's like 1997 and BTCC is done.(DTM/ITC is a good
example of how to destroy racing with high technology)

Hmmm, I went to a lot of racing-events last year (incl. F1) and I have to
say that the most exciting thing I've seen was the International
Supersportscup( Historic CAN-AM, and Sportscars).So it's all a matter of
personal opinion.

It seems that Max and Bernie have got it all wrong with the changes, but
don't expect a merger. If the EU is done with Bernie and the FIA, then CART
will conquer Europe!

Harald

by **Nathan Wo** » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

It should also have braking duels and differing lines into corners.
Nascar resembles a biff and barge autobahn.

--
Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
- Super Touring - Alfa Romeo -

- V8Supercars - CART -

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 15 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> > The
> > less rules a competition has the greater it will be and I doubt I'm
> > wrong in saying that even in these days of ridiculous F1 rule changes
> > that F1 is still a more open format than CART. This brings the
> > Engineering/team aspect to the fore and makes the overall championship

> > far greater than any strictly moderated formula. It has always been my

> > understanding that one of the key elements of F1 is the developement
> > of
> > new technologies for the automobile and science in general and this,
> > IMcorrectO :), makes it greater overall than a competition designed to

> > *** the engineering element for the sake of close racing.

> Like byrylium brake calippers? Carbon brakes? Gaining downforce in
> obviously irrelevant ways? 4 pedals?

So you think it's nonsense? LOL. Remember ABS. See all the
aerodynamical inovations in the modern family sedan? You are surely
joking!

I don't need to see the gizmos. I just need to know they are there
and that the cars on track are state of the art in every way possible.
Are you trying to say you don't want to see such a format? Once again,
you are surely joking!

Well it's no wonder that the U.S. public has little comparitive
interest in F1 because there are no races held there and no U.S. drivers
in F1. And I'll bet a lot of U.S. residents are none to happy about that
situation either. I'd say if your not into F1 then your not a dried
piece of shit on a real motorsport fan's arse!

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> Mansell said the same thing but was back at Williams like a shot ...

He was? My memory says he attempted to return to F1 with McLaren but
they couldn't get the***pit to fit his fat arse :) I don't know the
exact story but it seemed he just said "stuff it" and has not been heard
of since! I think that idiot running up his arse coming out of the pits
at Indy and ending up on top of Mansell's head and the consequent
scolding he got from a little radiator water was a large prompt for him
to kiss CART good bye. That and the fact that he'd already been there,
done that.

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> <snip>
> % Also, F1 drivers are second to none. Mansell goes CART and bingo.
> % Andretti comes to F1 and is simply outclassed completely. Blundell, a
> <snip>

> And Mansell goes back to F1 and squat..... So your point is?

Well actually, that's what good ole Nige' needed to do in fact - a
few squats. Then he may have fitted into a McLaren. Mansell proved his
domination and just retired as far as I know. The point is obvious - F1
is still a cut above the rest! But, unfortunately, it's changing. What's
the bet CART and F1 merge soon?

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> }
> }>Racing, to me, should at least include cars going fast in close
> proximity to
> }>other cars, on a track I can see more than 150 feet of without
> looking at a
> }>"Jumbotron".
> }
> }It should also have braking duels and differing lines into corners.
> }Nascar resembles a biff and barge autobahn.

> It should also have RACING, something I haven't seen in CART or F-1.

Look again. If you appreciate engineering/tactics then you appreciate
F1 and to a slightly lesser extent engineering wise, CART. If not, your
stuck with Nascar, etc.

by **DPHI** » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Yeah, they race...between yellows. A 5 lap Sprint Car race is like the last 5
minutes of an NBA game, it can take 30 minutes to complete with all the
interruptions from yellows/time outs. Don

by **Thomas C. Costell** » Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Just downloaded the F1RS demo, since the sim has not yet been released in
the U.S. Now I can see why F1 is so popular - the simulation is outstanding
w/ a 3dfx card - smooth frame rate, and the graphics are incredible.

Just a couple of things:

In the demo, I was in the Ferrari at Monza, and was in the lead coming out
of turn one. Imagine my heart-stopping reaction when my teammate, Eddie
Irvine, came WITHIN FIF*** FEET OF MY CAR in curva grande, and PASSED ME!!!
Now, I understand that this is only a demo, but:

1) Are "team orders" programmed into the full version of the sim, just like
real life, so I don't have to worry about a team car passing me?

2) If they are programmed into the sim, are they only reserved for the
McLaren cars?

3) I put a tire on the grass accidentally on a straight-away, and it didn't
fall off. Is damage realistically modeled in the full version?

4) What the heck was a Ferrari doing in the LEAD?

Thanks!

TC

by **Matthew Knutse** » Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> > > The
> (snip)
> > > new technologies for the automobile and science in general and
> this,
> > > IMcorrectO :), makes it greater overall than a competition
> designed to

> > > *** the engineering element for the sake of close racing.

> > Like byrylium brake calippers? Carbon brakes? Gaining downforce in
> > obviously irrelevant ways? 4 pedals?

> So you think it's nonsense? LOL. Remember ABS. See all the
> aerodynamical inovations in the modern family sedan? You are surely
> joking!

ABS was not something "discovered" in F1. Neither was traction
control.Tell me exactly what family sedan aerodynamics have to do with
F1 aerodynamics?
Tell me, how long have you been following F1?

- Show quoted text -

I think you are being a bit ignorant here. It's about racing. Besides,
the cars are built cramped to a restricting set of rules, like CART. If
you would like to see technology, a "formula None" should be created (as
P.Van Valkenburgh discussed in Racecar engineering). Now that would be
exciting! Do you know how much money goes into developing two top-line
F1s? Three years ago, Williams had a budget on development of GBP 70
million. Now how can anybody justify that when all you see are a bunch
of glorified ciggarette packets following a line?In the top days of
group C, those cars were embarrasingly quick for the F1 guys....and in
the days of the group B rally cars,
Henri Toivonen drove his Lancia Delta S4 quick enough around the
Silverstone GP circuit to outqualify several
F1s.....

- Show quoted text -

I consider your little philosophy here real deep. F1 was in the US. It's
a question of money. Bernie and hiscircus are expensive guests. Nobody
wants to risk spending that much money with nothing in return.

BTW, just saw the CART *race* from Homestead. Enjoyed it!

Matt
--

Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars (http://www.racesimcentral.net/~kareknut)

"Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
-Cale Yarborough

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