rec.autos.simulators

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

ttam

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by ttam » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00


>>>>Sorry, but F1 will always be more popular.

>>>Not in the US

>>Thank you for stating the obvious, but I guess we were talking
>>worldwide.

>Who said so?

I just said so. Usenet is worldwide, and there are lots of
non-Americans in this newsgroup. Look in the mirror sometime. ;-)

Only inside one team between two drivers (still I think that kind of
arrangement sucks, but fortunately it was only between two drivers),
and as you have probably read already, Nascar has had its arranged
victories too.

I thought you'd mention that. ;-) Anyways, your question was whether
the right driver won the race. Since H?kkinen lead most of the race
anyway, lost his lead only because of a mishap by the team
manager/grease monkeys, and was superior in qualifications too, I feel
he was the right driver to win. If anything, Coulthard should have
been commanded to drive through the pit uselessly too, just like
H?kkinen (for obvious reasons he wasn't, since there were other teams
on the track too! ;-)). If he had won after that, he would have been
the right driver to win the race.

But I must say it was disappointing to see how overwhelming that one
team was because of its cars. Hopefully the others catch up soon.
No I don't think H?kkinen is the best driver (too inexperienced
I guess), but IMO he was the right driver to win that particular race.
He had the right car under him (compared to other teams), and overall
performed better than the other driver in the same team.

***

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Pete

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Pete » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00


> > F1
> >dying I don't think so a full season of Formula one is viewed by 42 billion
> >people

> Damn, that's only 8 times the population of the world.   Bristol holds more
> than that!

> Lessee, 16 or 17 Races, divided in to 42 billion, gives  2470588235.294 viewers
> per race.  Are you seriously suggesting that 40% of the population watches F1?

> Also, maybe that 4.5 Gs would impress me more if it was done somewhare besides
> a 35mph chicane, which is the predominent feature of F1 'tracks'.

If you had any idea about physics you would realise that it's impossible
to generate anything like 4.5g in a 35mph chicane - which there are very
few of BTW, most tend to be of the order of 70-100mph.

FYI 3-4.5g cornering forces are generated on at least one corner per
track and in many cases more than that.

Silverstone - Copse, Becketts(2 different sides), Bridge
Spa - Eau Rouge(twice), Stebelot, Blanchimont, Les Fagnes
Estoril - Turn 1,Turn 2, Parabolica
Monza - Curva Grande, Lesmo 1, Lesmo 2, Parabolica
Magny Cours - Grande Curve
Interlagos - Perihinio to Senna esses
Barcelona - Final 2 turns of lap

Also braking from 180mph+ to 50mph will generate somewhere of the order
of 2g depending on the level of downforce being run - the more downforce
the shorter the braking distance and thus greater forces involved.

DM

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by DM » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00

It Shows...

Regards

DM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
To reply please remove < .nospam > from my e-mail address
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

"Error, no keyboard - press F1 to continue."

- PC Bios Message


>On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:54:16 +1100, Bruce Kennewell


>}>  all's they do is stay in line,  and supposedly race for
>}> 2 hours.

Nathan Wo

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Nathan Wo » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00


Have you ever experienced 4.5G? Or even 3G which is achieved under
heavy braking? Ever gone from standstill to 160mph in less than
4seconds? Or from 0-160mp and back to 0 in 4.5secs?

--
Nathan Wong          http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
                       - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo -

                            - V8Supercars - CART -

Joe Droga

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Joe Droga » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Yikes,
Only while trying to teach my son to drive!!



> >> F1
> >>dying I don't think so a full season of Formula one is viewed by 42 billion
> >>people

> >Damn, that's only 8 times the population of the world.   Bristol holds more
> >than that!

> >Lessee, 16 or 17 Races, divided in to 42 billion, gives  2470588235.294 viewers
> >per race.  Are you seriously suggesting that 40% of the population watches F1?

> >Also, maybe that 4.5 Gs would impress me more if it was done somewhare besides
> >a 35mph chicane, which is the predominent feature of F1 'tracks'.

> Have you ever experienced 4.5G? Or even 3G which is achieved under
> heavy braking? Ever gone from standstill to 160mph in less than
> 4seconds? Or from 0-160mp and back to 0 in 4.5secs?

> --
> Nathan Wong          http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
>                        - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo -

>                             - V8Supercars - CART -

John Walla

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by John Walla » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00


>At least they don't have pre-race agreements and "team orders"

How do you know? Coulthard could easily have slowed down by a second
or so per lap, faked a mistake to let Hakkinen "race" his way past and
you would have been none the wiser - how do you know NASCAR doesn't do
that? I'd guess that Coulthard made it as obvious as possible since
that puts so much more pressure on Hakkinen to reciprocate in the next
race. Personally I dislike it, but it's a reality and often a
necessity in any form of racing.

The reason for that is because the rules are structured specifically
to give even the small teams a chance of a win. You race within the
rules you are given (or, more precisely) within what you think you can
get away with undetected).

Cheers!
John

Byron Forbe

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Byron Forbe » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00


> 1) How was the competition for tenth through twenty second? Must have been
> exciting wondering who was going to drop out of the "race" next.

> 2) I guess two hours is too much time to devote to watching a "race." Why
> spend all that time when all you have to watch in an F1 "race" is the battle
> into the first turn. Then you can turn the "race" off, confident in the
> knowledge that you have just seen the only passing for the lead to occur for
> the entire "race."

   Comparing Nascar to F1 is a joke. 1 or maybe 2 Nascar races/year is
more than enough for me. Once you get over the roar of the engines and
the speed shots it's all over. The only reason I see Nascar as being so
successful in the U.S. is because it's the family sedan out there doin
200mph. Same thing here in Aus with the touring cars and the heavy Ford
Vs GM thing. That aside, I'd say Nascar lovers race arcade sims and
F1/Cart lovers are into the proper (very snobby here) sims.
    Now, lets have a look at CART Vs F1. Firstly, F1 barely has the
right to call itself F1 anymore. F1 has always meant to me the most open
form of motorsport on planet Earth bar none. Over the last decade we
have seen the clueless rules makers actually seek ways to make the cars
slower and kill inovations like ABS and Active suspension. The only good
thing they have done recently is get rid of that ridiculous traction
control nonsense. Still, to me, F1 is easily the most entertaining form
of motorsport there is. It's just so much more professional than
anything else and the people involved in it are massively dedicated.
     Also, F1 drivers are second to none. Mansell goes CART and bingo.
Andretti comes to F1 and is simply outclassed completely. Blundell, a
lower level F1 driver excelling in CART. Jacques takes 3 seasons to get
a F1 title in the best car. Etc. However, CART has a very big thing
going for it - similar machinary and the accompanying test of drivers.
It's very interesting watching ex F1 drivers competing with similar
machinary. Losing Indy was a blow but CART has come a long way from
having Indy as it's centre piece.
     All in all, the superiority of F1 is still obvious and the sights
and sounds are brilliant. Also, the characters of the ultra competitive
drivers adds to things dramatically. You can't beat tradition!
Coulthard's actions at the Aus GP made me spew. I was suprised he didn't
give Mika a big sloppy kiss in the post race interview - probably not
ready to come out of the closet yet. There we were, watching in
anticipation to see if Mika could catch and pass Davey poo when Davey
poo decides to move over and let his lover pass. Hopeless! Maybe these
guys are related to the F1 rules makers.
    Come to think of it it seems racing is in a slump everywhere. Can't
get a perfect sim! Can't have a perfect F1 series. Modify the tracks or
build new ones and lets see 1500hp race trim turbo F1 cars with ABS,
Active Susp, BIG *** etc and lets see who can build the most awesome
cars and who can drive them! (Shit, did I type all that?)
Brian Bus

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Brian Bus » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00


I agree.

Most sports are boring to somebody with little knowledge of the sport.  Try
watching a rowing race.  Utter tedium if you don't know the nuances of the
race.  And as for cricket, where a hundred little things go on with each
delivery ... well , maybe you see what i mean.

Certainly before nascar the game I had no appreciation of how hard it is to
drive in a circle!  And while I'll agree F1 is processional at times, there is
still a whole lot going on all the time. No way is it dying out.  Last season
was the most interesting for a long time.  This season has already had a
controversial start...

brian

--
remove 'bye' from address to reply

Randy Magrud

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Randy Magrud » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00


>     Also, F1 drivers are second to none. Mansell goes CART and bingo.
>Andretti comes to F1 and is simply outclassed completely.

I'm sorry but I just can't let this one slide. Its been argued to
death, but the simple fact of the matter is that the two situations
were entirely different in terms of the situation with the teams, the
learning curve of the circuits, and various other factors that
contributed to the success/failure of each driver.  

He wasn't excelling last year, and Zanardi didn't excel his rookie
year.  Christian Fittipaldi (as much as I like him) has yet to win his
first race.  Gugelmin finally won a race last year.  Not everyone
comes in and wins it all.  Blundell's comments about CART on record
are that when he came to CART from Formula One, he was surprised to
find himself in "the most competitive open-wheel series in the world".
Most F1 drivers have said similar things.  There *is* less of a
learning curve in CART than F1, but that's mainly because a fair
portion of the tracks are ovals, where your team's ability to set up
the car is vastly more important than it is on a road circuit.  As
Bobby Rahal said of ovals: "if you try to go fast before the car is
setup to go fast, you crash".

Wrong.  He won the title in his 2nd season.  get your facts straight.
he was also a close runner up to Hill in only his rookie season in
spite of never having driven most of the circuits before.  AND he was
put in easily the best car in F1.  Do you think he'd have won at all
in a Minardi?  A Tyrell?  How did Damon Hill do in an Arrows, anyway?
In F1 the car makes up a greater % of the chances for success.  In
CART the driver makes up a greater % than in F1.  CART is more of a
driver's series.  The F1 drivers are ALL excellent -- they wouldn't be
there if they weren't -- but they are all so close in talent that its
more the team that determines the success of the driver than anything
else.  Don't think for a moment that if Alex Zanardi goes back to F1
for a top team he won't get a world championship.

That's right.  CART is competitive and a great driver can make a
bigger difference than they can if they're stuck with a backmarker F1
team.

...to you perhaps.  But its a matter of opinion.  Some people felt it
was OBVIOUS that the world was flat and that Jews and Blacks were
inferior races, and would suffer no critique of their position.  In MY
opinion, CART is the best. But that's my opinion.  I'm not so
intolerable as to come on here and claim that my opinion is the one
and only truth or is "obvious".

Randy

od..

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by od.. » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00



There's also the opening complex of corners (left, right, left, right)
that can pull as many as 7g laterally on the flick from left to right.
It's unversally acknowledged that F1 drivers experience G's usually
limited to test pilots.

And (for a dig at Nascar) at least F1 wasn`t born from criminal
activities:) Bootleggin' rednecks:)

---
The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny

John Walla

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by John Walla » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00



>Blundell's comments about CART on record
>are that when he came to CART from Formula One, he was surprised to
>find himself in "the most competitive open-wheel series in the world".
>Most F1 drivers have said similar things.

Mmmm, but then what would you expect him to say when being interviewed
on U.S. TV on a program about CART while employed by a CART team?!

Mansell said the same thing but was back at Williams like a shot - I
wouldn't put tooooo much faith in what a driver says at a given
moment. Perhaps after they retire.

Cheers!
John

Randy Magrud

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Randy Magrud » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00


>Mmmm, but then what would you expect him to say when being interviewed
>on U.S. TV on a program about CART while employed by a CART team?!

Not every driver is so cowed as you might think.  Look at Jacques'
comments last year about the rules changes in F1.  Just because
someone says something nice about their place that they are in does
not mean that they must be lying.  In his book, "My first year in
Formula One" he also pays some compliments CART's way with regards to
how competitive it is and how good the drivers are.  This was AFTER
he'd left CART.

At any rate, I think that F1 drivers who come to CART do realize that
suddenly they are in a position where at least half the cars in the
field are capable of winning a race with the right driver.  Whereas in
F1 if you're not in one of maybe 4 teams you can forget it: your
driving, however brilliant, will not overcome the car deficit.

We need no more evidence of this than Damon Hill's adventures.  A
champion in Williams, a backmarker in Arrows, and a midpacker in a
Jordan.  I think you just see more of the driver and less of the car
in CART.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Byron Forbe

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Byron Forbe » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00


> >     All in all, the superiority of F1 is still obvious

> ...to you perhaps.  But its a matter of opinion.  Some people felt it
> was OBVIOUS that the world was flat and that Jews and Blacks were
> inferior races, and would suffer no critique of their position.  In MY
> opinion, CART is the best. But that's my opinion.  I'm not so
> intolerable as to come on here and claim that my opinion is the one
> and only truth or is "obvious".

> Randy

    How many different chassis in CART? Engines? Etc. How many different
countries involved at all levels? F1 is a true International sport
whereas CART is still primarily U.S based, though that is changing. The
less rules a competition has the greater it will be and I doubt I'm
wrong in saying that even in these days of ridiculous F1 rule changes
that F1 is still a more open format than CART. This brings the
Engineering/team aspect to the fore and makes the overall championship
far greater than any strictly moderated formula. It has always been my
understanding that one of the key elements of F1 is the developement of
new technologies for the automobile and science in general and this,
IMcorrectO :), makes it greater overall than a competition designed to
*** the engineering element for the sake of close racing. There's
nothing like watching an F1 car with the latest and greatest gizmo's
tear up a track!
    I have suspected that the deliberate de-evolution of F1 is designed
to let CART catch up and I expect a merger soon. Btw, how is it that the
U.S. has no GP races anymore? I was not paying much attention to
motorsport at the time. As CART moves forward and F1 goes backwards
something funny is bound to happen soon.
Mw421

OFF topic: ESPN loses F1 rights

by Mw421 » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00

I have, in aircraft, but no one was paying to watch me.  You ignored the other
part of my statement, about 35mph chicanes.  THAT's what I won't pay to watch,
especially on 'street' circuits resembling medium-security prisons.

Racing, to me, should at least  include cars going fast in close proximity to
other cars, on a track I can see more than 150 feet of without looking at a
"Jumbotron".

MW

MW


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.