rec.autos.simulators

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

Ruud Dingeman

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Ruud Dingeman » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:12:46


>>particularly generous man until he donates about 58 billion dollars, and
>>then he still has 1000 million left!
> Oh so now just giving isn't enough -- you have to give to the point that
> it actually damages you financially in order for it to count? Wow.

Where is Bill "financially damaged" if he still has *one 1000 million
dollars* left, exactly?

(My whole point was that his wealth is excessive, and that the world
would be better off if someone transferred the excess part to the poorer
parts of the world, *without* making Bill poor himself.)

Wrong, when Bill's moneypit is so vast while people are starving? You
mean that isn't somehow "wrong"?

I'd gladly justify it if it needed justifying.

If I could hack into Bill's bank account and give 90 per cent of his
cash to the people who are dying of hunger or the like, if I had to
choose between leaving Bill excessively rich and relieving world hunger
even for a month, I don't think I'd need to think about it very long.
You see, there are two "wrongs" here, and I think one is worse than the
other. That still doesn't mean I condone stealing in general.

I never said we did      ;)

It's not about Bill per se, he's just the perfect example of a
billionaire who has, in the face of the world's situation today, too
much money which would be better spent elsewhere.

No. I'm not even a particularly jealous person. I don't care how much
money Bill has, really. What I *do* care about is that some people are
allowed to make ridiculous sums of money (and don't work *nearly* so
hard, relatively speaking, to earn it) while lots of people are doomed
to live in the harshest forms of poverty.

That's what *I* have a slight problem with.

Regards, Ruud

Ruud Dingeman

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Ruud Dingeman » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:20:07


> The very concept of the government "allowing" you to build wealth makes
> my skin crawl. I can't believe there are people in the world who believe
> this is the right way to run things. I thought the liberals in this
> country were bad -- they ain't got nothin' on the Euro-libs...

Ehm, this isn't official Euro policy Todd, not even among liberals, I'm
just saying what I would like to happen *in some excessive cases* here...

Like I said, I never stated private enterprise would have to stop or be
completely neutered, I'd just like the excesses (including the
Enron-type, if that drives the point home a bit better in American) to
be capped off.

Regards, Ruud

Ruud Dingeman

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Ruud Dingeman » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:31:12


>>Ahem, no he's not. Sounds like what he is proposing is the classic "we
>>is sOOperiOr"-line.
> I'm not familiar with that line.

Look it up under "social Darwinism" and "nazi party".

That's partly true, but on the other hand it'd be darned difficult for
us as well to implement some decent financials *right now* if you first
had to pay off about $ 200 billion of third-world debt to the (get this)
rich countries of this world...

Yes. And decent fps on lower-end systems as well  ;)

Regards, Ruud

Gerald Moo

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Gerald Moo » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:55:39


> > > Capitalism cannot and should not ever be a goal to strive for... Do you
> > > really mean to say you find it a good thing that you have to pay to be
> > > treated in a hospital ??

> > I have always heard that you get what you pay for, so yes, absolutely.

> We obviously disagree there... I find it appaling that you cannot be treated
> in a hospital if you have no money.
> Please explain the positive aspects of a society where money is more
> important than human lives ??

I have personally been treated at a hospital on more than one occasion
when I did not have any money.  Now that my circumstances are
different, I won't mind paying for it.

Look at it this way.  My life and health is more important than money.
 That is why I dont mind paying a premium for it.  I also don't mind
subsidizing the doctor or hospital in treating the indigent, as long
as I can do it directly, or in the worst case, through some sort of
group medical plan that is interested in making a profit, rather than
inefficiently squandering my tax money.

Some do, but if you are smart and make the grades in high school you
can get a full scholarship to just about any institution you wish.
Why should I subsidize a bunch of ***agers, most of whom just want to
get drunk.  Oh, sorry, was talking about myself there...

, in Denmark education is free and the government pay a

Well, that's my point exactly.  If I had to pay 50-60% taxes, I'd
probably start a riot.  In a free market, you know where your money
goes, and you are the one who choses how to spend it.  If some
goon-squad broke into your house and demanded 1/2 of what you own,
you'd be outraged.  Even if they promised to use it to do good, you'd
be outraged.

Same to you.

Gerald

Top Sirloi

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Top Sirloi » Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:19:25


>That's partly true, but on the other hand it'd be darned difficult for
>us as well to implement some decent financials *right now* if you first
>had to pay off about $ 200 billion of third-world debt to the (get this)
>rich countries of this world...

Zimbabwe's economic collapse has nothing to do with debt and everything to do
with the socialist dictator Mugabe.

Well, if you lived in the richest county in the world system power wouldn't be a
problem! :-)

-Scott Johnson
 "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than
  to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go
  to watch their school play basketball every Saturday
  and regard that as their week's exercise."
                       - John F. Kennedy, 1962

Eldre

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Eldre » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:21:14



>> But, I'm not angry that Gates has tons of money and people are starving.
>I'm
>> angry that people are starving.  I don't make the same cause/effect that
>you
>> seem to...

>Well, they're not directly related, but they're related. Bill and other
>billionaires having excessive wealth (note the excessive) and not being
>limited to do so in any way, means green light for unequal distribution
>of wealth. If not limited, this tends to result in HUGE wealth for some,
>and often HUGE poverty for many. Imho, that's worth an adjustment,
>without leaving Bill c.s. poor.

I do not want *anyone* limiting how much money *anyone* can earn...period.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Eldre » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:21:13



>(My whole point was that his wealth is excessive, and that the world
>would be better off if someone transferred the excess part to the poorer
>parts of the world, *without* making Bill poor himself.)

Excessive being a totally arbitrary amount that no one can agree on.  What's
excessive to you obviously isn't excessive to a number of other people in this
thread.  It's certainly not excessive to Bill himself, or he would have already
gotten rid of it.  I simply don't like anyone placing limits on anyone else's
earning ability.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Eldre » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:21:13




>> So, if you were somehow able to amass that much money, you'd give
>everything
>> over $1 million away to others?  Forgive me if I say that I don't believe
>that.

>Eldred, believe me my man: if I had a *million* dollars, I'd have no
>problem whatsoever with giving away the rest.

I'll be honest - I would NOT give away everything over a million dollars.
However, I would donate quite a bit, probably.

Who said sitting at home?  You could be out travelling, exploring interesting
places, volunteering for your favorite charities.  You could be trying to make
a difference in your community.
If I had that kind of money, though, I'd be racing for REAL...<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ruud Dingeman

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Ruud Dingeman » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:17:43

(Hm, I thought the thread had died out, but hey, always happy to oblige  :)


>>(My whole point was that his wealth is excessive, and that the world
>>would be better off if someone transferred the excess part to the poorer
>>parts of the world, *without* making Bill poor himself.)
> Excessive being a totally arbitrary amount that no one can agree on.

Probably. However, if having $ 60 *billion* isn't excessive, I don't
know what is. I think we can agree though that he doesn't need that much
to live comfortably.

Well, I can understand that - however, if you have to weigh it against
the appalling consequences that limitless unequal wealth distribution
has, I think there's a case to be made to do so. Every death of poverty
is one far, far too many.

Regards, Ruud

Ruud Dingeman

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Ruud Dingeman » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:30:53


>>Nobody of us, in general, leaves their country unless they have to. But
>>if I could just live where I wanted, I'd be sitting on a beach in Hawaii
>>with a nice laptop playing GPL instead of soggy northern Europe   ;)

> So why can't you?  You're an ***.  You can live wherever in the free world
> you WANT to, and can afford...

Well, let me put it like this - the "can afford" part already means that
even this illusionary option exists only for those who have the money.

Eldred, my man, you have a lot to learn of the world outside the US
(note, in the above, we were not talking about temporary holidays, but
living somewhere - permanently).

Here in Europe, for instance, officials aren't even letting people in
who are persecuted by *Saddam*, let alone that you can just live
anywhere you want.
And haven't you heard about those immigrant concentration camps in
Australia?

In case ya didn't get it, the "free world" DOES NOT EXIST.

(Not even for Americans. In fact, Americans' freedoms are being gnawed
on by its government as we speak under the veil of "national security".
This could have some interesting repercussions for Usenet discussions
like ours in a few years from now.)

Regards, Ruud

Ruud Dingeman

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Ruud Dingeman » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:33:38


>>of wealth. If not limited, this tends to result in HUGE wealth for some,
>>and often HUGE poverty for many. Imho, that's worth an adjustment,
>>without leaving Bill c.s. poor.
> I do not want *anyone* limiting how much money *anyone* can earn...period.

<Sigh>

See you when the next Great Depression breaks out.

I think many Americans in in 1929 might have changed their minds after
that as well.

Regards, Ruud

Dave Case

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Dave Case » Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:00:54

Ya know, I've read your b.s. long enough.  It's quite clear that you have no
clue about personal responsibility and the power of one, determined
individual.  All you understand is that someone else has something that you
don't and you want someone or some organization to step in and take it away
from them and give it to you.  You sound just like the welfare ***s in
this country and I'm getting a little tired of them too.

Consider yourself on my kill list because you have nothing to say that is
worth listening to.

--
                      Dave Casey, REALTOR
                Looking to buy or sell in Vegas?
                 Visit my site and contact me.
                  www.lasvegashomesdirect.com
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           www.buycoolcrap.com - Your Debt Free Future

Ruud Dingeman

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Ruud Dingeman » Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:25:14


>>I think many Americans in in 1929 might have changed their minds after
>>that as well.

> Ya know, I've read your b.s. long enough.  It's quite clear that you have no
> clue about personal responsibility and the power of one, determined
> individual.

Well.. What do you know, anyway. Watch me tackle the 'Ring in GPL and
you'd see a powerful display of one very determined individual  ;)

<sigh>

You didn't read my posts at all, I see. I *never* said Bill's excess
money should go to *me*, but to people who are starving.

If you can't even differentiate between individuals, I'd say it has
little use trying to explain such simplicities to ya.

Given the above, I think I'm probably proud to be on yer 'kill' list...

Regards, Ruud


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