rec.autos.simulators

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

Goy Larse

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Goy Larse » Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:09:36



> wrote something like this:


> >>   seems like rich democrats are always ready to spend rich republican's
> >> money.  I wonder why they don't spend their own?

> >>    Even Jesus knew poverty couldn't be cured.  If you obsess on the wealth
> >> of others you are wasting time that could be spent bettering your life or
> >> those who are less fortunate.
> >> dave henrie

> >Who is this Jesus (said with a Spanish pronunciation) and what's his GPL
> >rank ?

> He's from Sweden, and his GPL handicap is -18.751, current rank 1008:
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Well whaddyaknow, there he is, makes you wonder if God has a GPL rank as
well

Existential question, God, does he really exist and does he play GPL ?

If he doesn't, does that make him a lesser God ?

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits"    http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

Top Sirloi

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Top Sirloi » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:13:05


>> of people around the world to teach "the starving masses" how to grow their
>> own food and feed themselves.  Yet, people still starve.  Seems to me that
>> something is wrong with those people,

>That's a rather naive, dangerous and/or undereducated point of view. The
>very point that led to slavery, in fact. "They" are inferior, "we" are
>not and therefore "we" (the rich) should get to decide how to run the
>world. You're tantalisingly close to extolling the views of an
>ethnocentric racist here.

You know Ruud, he's proposing the exact opposite of slavery - freedom, education
and opportunity instead of the PC slavery of government hand-outs.

The "rich" don't tell anyone what to do - they generally just offer (this is a
huge simplification) products or services for sale.

It's the government that makes _laws_ and puts you in jail for breaking them.

-Scott Johnson
 "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than
  to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go
  to watch their school play basketball every Saturday
  and regard that as their week's exercise."
                       - John F. Kennedy, 1962

Top Sirloi

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Top Sirloi » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:22:42



>>>It doesn't. It just says that having $ 40.000+ million while other
>>>people literally starve to death, is wrong and a situation worth

>> People starving is bad, no doubt.  But, it's not Bill's fault that people are
>> starving.

>Yes it is, at least in part.

>Let's say Bill gives away maybe 2 per cent of his fortune and that's OK
>in itself, that's nice. But that still means Bill, being just one man,
>has more than $ 57.000.000.000 left while about 57.000.000 human beings
>are dying from starvation. That, my friend, is wrong.

If you knew page 1 from any economics textbook you'd drop the idea that Bill
Gates is carrying around all that in his wallet as cash.

Except for a small amount he probably keeps liquid, the rest of that money is
out working in the economy, creating jobs and businesses for everyone else.

-Scott Johnson
 "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than
  to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go
  to watch their school play basketball every Saturday
  and regard that as their week's exercise."
                       - John F. Kennedy, 1962

Eldre

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Eldre » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 03:27:38

Keeping people from starving is ALWAYS worth correcting.  I simply disagree
with your methods for doing so.
But, I'm not angry that Gates has tons of money and people are starving.  I'm
angry that people are starving.  I don't make the same cause/effect that you
seem to...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Uncle Feste

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Uncle Feste » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 04:02:18


> Food for thought....Bill gates earns in excess of $8000 per minute in
> interest...

And he's really working hard for it, isn't he?  :-P

--

Fester

There is a better way, for the enlightened.
http://www.racun.tk/

Uncle Feste

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Uncle Feste » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 04:06:08


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/27878.html

> Yeah, I know it's not Bill personally, just thought it was an amusing
> side note

Yeah, this seems to be the type of charity BG likes to engage in.  It's
only point is to make more money for himself in the end.  What a hypocrite.

--

Fester

There is a better way, for the enlightened.
http://www.racun.tk/

Uncle Feste

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Uncle Feste » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 04:22:02


> Pure uncontrolled capitalism is just as bad a road to take as pure
> communism.

> Capitalism cannot and should not ever be a goal to strive for... Do you
> really mean to say you find it a good thing that you have to pay to be
> treated in a hospital ?? Do you honestly find it fair that only the rich
> people can afford a good education ?
> YES I want to be able to own my own stuff, I wanna have the chance to be
> *** rich, I want free enterprise, I want to feel it is worth it doing an
> extra effort and all the other capitalistic stuff, BUT I also want free
> hospitals, free education and a fair lower level of poverty... that can only
> be reached by applying the politics of most European countries, i.e. a mix
> of the various systems not as extreme as the US capitalism or the communism
> still ruling some unfortunate countries in the Asian region.

Amen brother.  I suspect one of the biggest reasons many folks, in the
US at least, balk at limiting the power of the wealthy elite is because
deep down inside they feel (or hope) *they* will be one of the wealthy
themselves one day.  And they don't want limitations to come into effect
just before they get there.

IMHO there are certain basic human rights every person on this earth
deserves regardless of where they live, what religion they are or what
their skin color is.  Every living being has a right to: food, medical
care, education, housing, climate-appropriate clothing, and
transportation.  And I'm not talking about the raggedy, trashed-out
hand-me-down scraps the poor are thrown under our current system either.
  Equality across the board.  The wealthy's bank accounts are not more
important that those human beings who are homeless in our urban inner
cities.  Any system that says they are is morally bankrupt itself and
unfit to rule.

--

Fester

There is a better way, for the enlightened.
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Goy Larse

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Goy Larse » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 05:41:05


> Amen brother.  I suspect one of the biggest reasons many folks, in the
> US at least, balk at limiting the power of the wealthy elite is because
> deep down inside they feel (or hope) *they* will be one of the wealthy
> themselves one day.  And they don't want limitations to come into effect
> just before they get there.

> IMHO there are certain basic human rights every person on this earth
> deserves regardless of where they live, what religion they are or what
> their skin color is.  Every living being has a right to: food, medical
> care, education, housing, climate-appropriate clothing, and
> transportation.  And I'm not talking about the raggedy, trashed-out
> hand-me-down scraps the poor are thrown under our current system either.
>   Equality across the board.  The wealthy's bank accounts are not more
> important that those human beings who are homeless in our urban inner
> cities.  Any system that says they are is morally bankrupt itself and
> unfit to rule.

Fester, when I'm ready to start my revolution, you will be one of the
first people I call....:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Gerald Moo

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Gerald Moo » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:51:11


> Capitalism cannot and should not ever be a goal to strive for... Do you
> really mean to say you find it a good thing that you have to pay to be
> treated in a hospital ??

I have always heard that you get what you pay for, so yes, absolutely.

Do you honestly believe that you have to be rich to be well educated?

Bill makes a good *** boy since lots of folks resent Microsoft
for various reasons.  But, as you say, he has proven to be a very
generous man.  I can't believe anyone who knows much about what he has
contributed to the fight against global hunger and disease would have
anything but praise for the man.

Lots of folks like to complain but precious few like to do much about
it.

Every time somebody says something about redistributing wealth I ask
them if they would mind if I took some of theirs... Theft is theft.

Gerald

> Mikkel



> > I disagree.
> > It's called capitalism, and free enterprise.  He created a product, then
> > created the market share, and was rewarded financially for it.  I'm no big
>  fan
> > of Microsoft, but I'm still against all the government action towards
>  them.
> > Since when did it become a crime to become SUCCESSFUL...?

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > GPLRank:+6.19
> > N2002 Rank:+18.91

> > Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats
>  you
> > with experience...
> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David G Fishe

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by David G Fishe » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 08:00:17


Don't apologize.

I've never been more embarrassed to be an American than I have been these
past two years.

I am strictly an Earthling now. :-)

David G Fisher

Mikkel Gram-Hanse

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Mikkel Gram-Hanse » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:45:37

We obviously disagree there... I find it appaling that you cannot be treated
in a hospital if you have no money.
Please explain the positive aspects of a society where money is more
important than human lives ??

Hmm... as far as I know you have to pay a LOT of money to go to college or
university in the US, in Denmark education is free and the government pay a
small "salary" to students so they can devote most of their time studying
instead of McJobbing to survive, it's not a lot of money, but just enough to
survive on. ( that explains our *** 50-60% taxes I guess... HATE those
when I make money from time to time and I would not mind cutting down our
public sector quite a bit... I do not like to be overprotected by the
government more than anyone else )

Amen, Bill has done much more than most people imagine... He is a "good guy"
(tm) in my book.
btw. thanks for keeping it clean despite our different opinions ;)

Mikkel

J. Todd Wass

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by J. Todd Wass » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:21:07

It seems to me that Bill's "first" donation was the largest ever in history.
Wasn't it 2.3 BILLION dollars, or was it 3.2 billion?  Anyway, it's far into
the billions of dollars.  That's thousands of millions...  

If I understood the press correctly at the time, he had therefore donated more
money than any person or company in world history (that's got to be more than
the gross national product of many of the places we're thinking of, right?  Or
at least a significant chunk of it.)  The man has given!  Oh wait, he's still
got some left...  He hasn't given enough yet.  (?)  Where do you draw the line?
 And if you draw a line, how will that effect the economy (everyone else)?  

Could he have done that if a rule was imposed that says you/your company can
only have a net worth of $1 million?  If that was a rule, I know of at least
one building with a lot of workers in it that would shut down.  Anyone else in
a similar boat (or car)?  Then I'd be starving too and that really wouldn't
help anyone.  My job would not exist if the owner of the company didn't want to
streamline things and make things more profitable even though he was already
making a truckload of money every day before taking on a new, exciting,
potential headache.  (In my book, that means doing more with less resources,
probably how most rich people get rich in the first place?)  He would NOT have
bothered to do this had he/the company been over a salary cap.  I would not be
employed there and there would be xx less jobs in the world, it's as simple as
that.  

That "greedy, money hungry" drive of his created our department that sells
computer equipment on eBay, and is giving me and a few other folks some
interesting opportunities that would not have existed otherwise.  On top of
that, more PC's on eBay equals increased competition.  That drives prices down
on used PC's (and therefore new ones, probably) so you can donate more of your
income to Starvin' Marvin if you choose to do so.  And yes, it does drive down
prices noticeably.  We have to be careful not to list too many identical
machines on any given day for this very reason.  

It doesn't seem logical that I can stand in line with millions of other people
(big store, ok? ;-)) to spend $100 on a Microsoft product, then point the
finger at M$ for starving the people of the world afterwards.  Let's face it.
That money in Bill's pocket came from us.  If we weren't spending our money on
Microsoft stuff, how many of us would really be donating more than we currently
are anyway (if at all)?  Or how many of us would go out to the movies or buy
something for ourselves instead?  As much as I'd love to be the martyr here
(not really), I know what I would really do!  Same thing that happens when I
get a raise..  More money...  I spend more on myself!  Heck, I might even buy
two racing sims instead of one this month.  That feeds someone, doesn't it?
Maybe I should feel guilty because it feeds the wrong person?  Maybe someone
who is doing any different can tell me what a bad person I am.

If we don't want Bill to have any more money, then for goodness sake, we should
stop giving it to him.  We should donate it ourselves and stop blaming Bill for
not doing it AFTER we forked over our hard earned cash for a Microsoft FF wheel
(which is necessary for survival, right?  Oh wait...  This is r.a.s. :-) ).

I wonder at what point some people taking part in this discussion would think
it's ok to start pirating my stuff (now maybe someone will do it just for
spite, or not at all because it isn't interesting anyway! :-)).  Scary
thought...  After one spends a few months or a couple years on a project,
taking a gamble with crossed fingers that it *might* make some money so you can
get some of that invested time back in some form so what you've done has
become, in your own opinion, "worth it", one's relaxed attitudes towards piracy
can shift substantially.  (One's sentences might also become noticably shorter
and to-the-point as well, but that remains to be seen.)  Especially when things
fail or don't succeed as much as hoped for.... Frequently.  And then some!

I agree.  Let's not pirate Live for Speed.  Let's not pirate anything :-)  

And after every sim nut on the planet dishes out $50 for Live for Speed because
they decided for themselves that it's worth that much to them, let's not start
hollering at the three guys that created it about how greedy they are, or how
they're starving mankind and ruining the world because suddenly they have too
much money.  If you've got $50 in your hand and want LFS, buy it.  If you want
to feed a starving person instead, please do so.  Your choice.  If they get
rich while Marvin starves, that's as much our fault as it is theirs.

Or of course, I could just be a babbling idiot..  That's quite possible :-P

Todd Wasson
---
Performance Simulations
Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction
Software
http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

My little car sim screenshots:
http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm

Top Sirlo

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Top Sirlo » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:30:01



A perfect system for anything with sub-human intelligence - sign up the
socialists!

 Scott Johnson
 "A group like al-Qaeda cannot be deterred or placated or
  reasoned with at a conference table. For that reason,
  this struggle will not end with a treaty or accommodation
  of terrorists. It can only end in their complete and
  utter destruction."  -VP*** Cheney

Eldre

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Eldre » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:54:39



>> I disagree.
>> It's called capitalism, and free enterprise.

>Yes. And when left uncontrolled, it's a monster that will devour you or
>me. Enron was a pretty good case in point, a warning sign even for
>Americans. That was capitalism in action, as well.

Enron was caused by dishonesty and greed.  There ARE controls - they're called
LAWS.  Laws get broken under every type of government or financial system.  The
fact that you or I might might not be good enough, fast enough, or smart enough
to make a fortune in capitalism doesn't meen it's a bad thing.

Spoon-fed?  Doesn't everyone think that their country's(doesn't matter which
country) way is the best?  If you(generic "you") honestly don't think your
country is the best, why would you STAY there?

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

Lets not pirate Live For Speed

by Eldre » Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:54:39



>Pure uncontrolled capitalism is just as bad a road to take as pure
>communism.
>]

I disagree.

That's why people have insurance.  Since I've never had any experience with
free national health care, I can't comment on if it's good or bad.  But, I also
don't have to fork over 60%(WTF?!?) of my salary, as somebody mentioned...

Maybe only the rich people can afford Harvard or Yale.  I don't care - I happen
to think that there are other universities that are just as good and which cost
much less.

Eldred

--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.


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