rec.autos.simulators

>>have you seen the steering wheel of the ferrari?

>He was probably referring more to aero and chassis tuning than in-car
>adjustments.  Weight jacking and stagger and assymetrical setups are
>still a novelty in F1 even after having guys like Villeneuve, Montoya,
>Andretti the elder, etc come over and use them with some success.

>> I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the adjustments can be done over
>> the air in terms of electronics.  That would eliminate many possible
>> adjustments right there.  All in all, it's still comparing apples and
>> oranges....

>> Mike

>   That used to be the case in F1.  It got so bad that engineers were
>controlling Max Engine revs/power during certain parts of a lap and
>restricting power/revs at other parts of the lap.  That was all banned a
>couple of years ago.  
>    F1 cars have a myriad of incar adjustments.  Watch the incar cams
>sometimes, the drivers are often twisting any number of knobs on the
>wheel to change handling/engine performance etc.  
>    So while you don't SEE the big wing changes like in CART or irl, you
>also don't SEE the tiny adjustments from turn to turn the driver makes.  
>From what I have gathered over the years, the F1 engineers tend to put
>less of an emphasis on driver input and rely more and more on computer
>analysis.  
>     Before you say this is a bad thing, that is pretty much the case in
>Nascar now too.  Take Penske South Racing for example.  Ryan Newman, a
>young Gun, Computer literate, Engineering degree...Smart guy.
>He and his team usually have their setups worked out in advance.  Very
>few changes during the race.  His teammate, however, is Rusty Wallace, an
>old school driver who would prefer to work out his engineering challenges
>by the seat of his pants.    More and more though, Rusty has been
>grudgingly pulled over to the computer side, but I'm sure he'll never
>embrace it as whole heartedly as Newman.
>    Cart used to be able to change several items while on track, like
>Weight Jacking and Engine mapping(performance vs Fuel Economy) but with
>the Customer Ford Engines now used, all the Engine tweeking is
>gone...except for the 60 seconds of 'push to pass' that overrides the rev
>limiter when activated.  
>     Nascar has ZERO incar adjustments.  All that comes from driver and
>crewchief talking while racing and making changes during pitstops.  
>  Here endeth the short summary.

>dh

>>have you seen the steering wheel of the ferrari?

>He was probably referring more to aero and chassis tuning than in-car
>adjustments.  Weight jacking and stagger and assymetrical setups are
>still a novelty in F1 even after having guys like Villeneuve, Montoya,
>Andretti the elder, etc come over and use them with some success.

> Now that I think about it, that's strange, as Indycar Racing had that
> adjustment and none of the NASCAR Racing series did.  Papyrus would
> have known the rules and would have been able to program that in.
> Makes me wonder why they skipped that.

> Anyhow there is 1 in car adjustment the driver can make.  Aside from
> how tight the straps are...  :)

> Mike

> On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:37:10 -0500, Dave Henrie

> >> I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the adjustments can be done over
> >> the air in terms of electronics.  That would eliminate many possible
> >> adjustments right there.  All in all, it's still comparing apples and
> >> oranges....

> >> Mike

> >   That used to be the case in F1.  It got so bad that engineers were
> >controlling Max Engine revs/power during certain parts of a lap and
> >restricting power/revs at other parts of the lap.  That was all banned a
> >couple of years ago.
> >    F1 cars have a myriad of incar adjustments.  Watch the incar cams
> >sometimes, the drivers are often twisting any number of knobs on the
> >wheel to change handling/engine performance etc.
> >    So while you don't SEE the big wing changes like in CART or irl, you
> >also don't SEE the tiny adjustments from turn to turn the driver makes.
> >From what I have gathered over the years, the F1 engineers tend to put
> >less of an emphasis on driver input and rely more and more on computer
> >analysis.
> >     Before you say this is a bad thing, that is pretty much the case in
> >Nascar now too.  Take Penske South Racing for example.  Ryan Newman, a
> >young Gun, Computer literate, Engineering degree...Smart guy.
> >He and his team usually have their setups worked out in advance.  Very
> >few changes during the race.  His teammate, however, is Rusty Wallace, an
> >old school driver who would prefer to work out his engineering challenges
> >by the seat of his pants.    More and more though, Rusty has been
> >grudgingly pulled over to the computer side, but I'm sure he'll never
> >embrace it as whole heartedly as Newman.
> >    Cart used to be able to change several items while on track, like
> >Weight Jacking and Engine mapping(performance vs Fuel Economy) but with
> >the Customer Ford Engines now used, all the Engine tweeking is
> >gone...except for the 60 seconds of 'push to pass' that overrides the rev
> >limiter when activated.
> >     Nascar has ZERO incar adjustments.  All that comes from driver and
> >crewchief talking while racing and making changes during pitstops.
> >  Here endeth the short summary.

> >dh

>> They race on asphalt short ovals in Britain and Holland every
>> weekend,
> rain
>> or no rain, but I'm guessing that's not what you mean...

> What types of cars are they?  Anything like 800HP, 3400lb cars with
> relatively narrow tires?  I would have to assume no, but I have no
> idea so you'll have to enlighten me.

>>> They race on asphalt short ovals in Britain and Holland every
>>> weekend,
>> rain
>>> or no rain, but I'm guessing that's not what you mean...

>> What types of cars are they?  Anything like 800HP, 3400lb cars with
>> relatively narrow tires?  I would have to assume no, but I have no
>> idea so you'll have to enlighten me.

>Brisca F1 Stock cars run unlimited capacity V8s- usually either small
>block chevy or big block dodge motors.  They race on dirt and asphalt,
>but they don't get up to the kind of speeds an Indy Car is capable of,
>for sure.

>>> F1 also raced at Indy in the rain, which, while not using the oval
>>> completely, certainly didn't lack for speed in the wet when on the
>>> oval part.  If they can do it...

>>> cheers
>>> John

>> Thats only one turn of the oval, so the rain tires do take more abuse
>> at Indy than pretty much any other F1 circuit, but it isnt anything
>> like constantly pulling the treads off one side of the tire.

>I'm sure they could race ovals on wet weather tyres if they wanted to,
>every driver has full control of the rightmost pedal at the end of the
>day, and tyres can be made that will do the job if required.

>JM

> People watch lawnmower racing.  What do they go, 7-8 mph?
> :-)