rec.autos.simulators

by **Barne** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:00:41

Ok,

Can someone explain to an interested Aussie the differences between the
Nascar 2, 3 & 4 titles and Nascar Legends. I have seen rave reviews in this
group for NL and I wondering what is the great difference for people to go
out and buy this game. Is it the drivers, the tracks, the vehicles, the
handling??

As someone who has bought the previous Nascar titles based on the driving
aspect without a great knowledge or respect for the history or inside
information in the day to day of the sport (unlike my interest in Australian
Rules) I'd like to know the reasoning behind the longevity of this title.

Thanks in advance

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:25:17

Nascar Legends is merely Nascar 3 with slightly different vehicle dynamics
and cruder car shapes. The main appeal of Nascar Legends is the chance to
drive the famed Aero Cars of the early 70's. The Dodge Daytonna and it's
Cousin the Plymouth Superbird. These cars were so potent on the big tracks
Nascar outlawed them. The Ford Torino/Mercury(drawing a blank on car
name) also put up a good show.
The cars back then had less downforce, and no radial tires...this is
evident in the sim. BUT....
The online community for Legends is microscopic. It shares the same
robust mulitplayer functions as N3 but has a very very small audience.
And...either N3 or NL are easily outshined by the driving models in either
Nascar Heat or Nascar 4.
The longevity of the title is not really correct. Only a few people got
the original and only a few folks actually race it now.(compared to N3 or
N4) So what you are seeing is the small group of people who appreciate the
era and continue to use it. Heck Viper Racing probably has a bigger
following than NL.
dave henrie

by **Mario Petrinovi** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:22:33

Unfortunately you have to play it to understand. It isn't one thing.
It is everything in it. Those man simply new how to live life the way we,
with our safety belts, simply cannot. It is the handling of that big limos.
It is the sound of that engines. And, especially, it is those tires ( don't
know the word in English, bias or something ). It is those short, and
long, tracks. Talladega in NL is something completly different. Or try
Bowman Gray, lol. North Wilkesboro is fantastic. Not to mention
Riverside. Of that staff are dreams made. Today everything is so clean.
Then everything was so real. I hope you get it, lol.
In short, with todays cars you set the line and you drive that line.
In NL phisics is completly different. You set the line and pray, lol.
Sorry, just kiding. But I'm trying to give you a picture. It isn't so clean
for sure as today. And that is beauty of it.

by **Mario Petrinovi** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:46:30

To add just a little, while I'm in mood, and for you to
understand why I would like NL2.
Todays cars are straigth like bullet. To know to drive those
cars you have to know waltz, lol. Now I'm going to sleep, and I
will dream of NL2.

by **Mario Petrinovi** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:52:34

And in that dream I will drive on original Daytona, lol.

by **SWB** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 17:28:14

I think you need to have an interest in the cars of the era, and an
appreciation of what the drivers had to cope with at sometimes 200mph+. The
game is similar to N3, with period tracks (others can be added), and period
style car handling, with no grip to speak of, and a steering wheel that
responds like the tiller on a supertanker. The AI have a higher aggression
rating as well. The pleasure is in mastering this, and once you are used to
racing a short oval with the car in a constant slide going back to N3 seems
pretty tame. Worth a go, but not many people use it now.
Steve

by **Morgan V. Woote** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:01:32

I used to love NL, but N4's physics model has me spoiled. I've tried going
back from time to time, but the physics feel so flat. Love those old cars
and short tracks, though.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten
System Specs:
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/m/v/mvwooten/system.txt
-----------------------------------------------------------------

> I think you need to have an interest in the cars of the era, and an
> appreciation of what the drivers had to cope with at sometimes 200mph+.
The
> game is similar to N3, with period tracks (others can be added), and
period
> style car handling, with no grip to speak of, and a steering wheel that
> responds like the tiller on a supertanker. The AI have a higher aggression
> rating as well. The pleasure is in mastering this, and once you are used
to
> racing a short oval with the car in a constant slide going back to N3
seems
> pretty tame. Worth a go, but not many people use it now.
> Steve

> > Ok,

> > Can someone explain to an interested Aussie the differences between the
> > Nascar 2, 3 & 4 titles and Nascar Legends. I have seen rave reviews in
> this
> > group for NL and I wondering what is the great difference for people to
go
> > out and buy this game. Is it the drivers, the tracks, the vehicles, the
> > handling??

> > As someone who has bought the previous Nascar titles based on the
driving
> > aspect without a great knowledge or respect for the history or inside
> > information in the day to day of the sport (unlike my interest in
> Australian
> > Rules) I'd like to know the reasoning behind the longevity of this
title.

> > Thanks in advance

by **Gerald Moo** » Fri, 28 Dec 2001 00:29:44

I rarely played N3 and pre***ly played NL until N4 came out.
Even then, the online community was tiny. I can only imagine that now
it must be completely dried up.

Do you think NL would have developed a larger following if it had been
released with the GPL physics model? That would have made it truly
awesome.

I still miss North Wilkesboro and Riverside, in the real world. I
wish Papy would release an expansion pack that would give us updated
N4 versions of all the old tracks. Sort of a "what if" product.

Wasn't it the Ford SOHC engine that got banned? I think there was
some controversy about it not ever being produced in a street version
of their car too, instead being produced for the Mustang. You've got
me stumped on the Mercury model name. Cyclone? It's going to bother
me all day until I remember now.

Gerald

> Nascar Legends is merely Nascar 3 with slightly different vehicle dynamics
> and cruder car shapes. The main appeal of Nascar Legends is the chance to
> drive the famed Aero Cars of the early 70's. The Dodge Daytonna and it's
> Cousin the Plymouth Superbird. These cars were so potent on the big tracks
> Nascar outlawed them. The Ford Torino/Mercury(drawing a blank on car
> name) also put up a good show.
> The cars back then had less downforce, and no radial tires...this is
> evident in the sim. BUT....
> The online community for Legends is microscopic. It shares the same
> robust mulitplayer functions as N3 but has a very very small audience.
> And...either N3 or NL are easily outshined by the driving models in either
> Nascar Heat or Nascar 4.
> The longevity of the title is not really correct. Only a few people got
> the original and only a few folks actually race it now.(compared to N3 or
> N4) So what you are seeing is the small group of people who appreciate the
> era and continue to use it. Heck Viper Racing probably has a bigger
> following than NL.
> dave henrie

> > Ok,

> > Can someone explain to an interested Aussie the differences between the
> > Nascar 2, 3 & 4 titles and Nascar Legends. I have seen rave reviews in
> this
> > group for NL and I wondering what is the great difference for people to go
> > out and buy this game. Is it the drivers, the tracks, the vehicles, the
> > handling??

> > As someone who has bought the previous Nascar titles based on the driving
> > aspect without a great knowledge or respect for the history or inside
> > information in the day to day of the sport (unlike my interest in
> Australian
> > Rules) I'd like to know the reasoning behind the longevity of this title.

> > Thanks in advance

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:18:16

"Gerald Moore" > Wasn't it the Ford SOHC engine that got banned? I think
there was

They may have done that to Ford as well. But Nascar banned or limited the
426 hemi so that the Mopar teams were forced to go to the 440 wedge engine.
Then they put severe(carb plate??) restrictions on the Daytona's and
Superbirds so that they had to draft just to stay in the back. Typical for
the time. The Hemi got banned in Pro Stock Drag Racing too. And the NEON
was effectively banned years later in SCCA showroom stock racing after two
years of ***. Giving engine mods to the Mazdas killed the Neon's
horsepower advantage. (think I have a Mopar bias??) :)
And YUP you were correct. Mercury Cyclone.
I thought the body shapes and graphics were almost crude compared to N3.
I wonder if that was deliberate, i.e. a crude look for a crude time...or
just a bugetary limitation.
dave henrie

> Gerald

> > Nascar Legends is merely Nascar 3 with slightly different vehicle
dynamics
> > and cruder car shapes. The main appeal of Nascar Legends is the chance
to
> > drive the famed Aero Cars of the early 70's. The Dodge Daytonna and
it's
> > Cousin the Plymouth Superbird. These cars were so potent on the big
tracks
> > Nascar outlawed them. The Ford Torino/Mercury(drawing a blank on car
> > name) also put up a good show.
> > The cars back then had less downforce, and no radial tires...this is
> > evident in the sim. BUT....
> > The online community for Legends is microscopic. It shares the same
> > robust mulitplayer functions as N3 but has a very very small audience.
> > And...either N3 or NL are easily outshined by the driving models in
either
> > Nascar Heat or Nascar 4.
> > The longevity of the title is not really correct. Only a few people
got
> > the original and only a few folks actually race it now.(compared to N3
or
> > N4) So what you are seeing is the small group of people who appreciate
the
> > era and continue to use it. Heck Viper Racing probably has a bigger
> > following than NL.
> > dave henrie

> > > Ok,

> > > Can someone explain to an interested Aussie the differences between
the
> > > Nascar 2, 3 & 4 titles and Nascar Legends. I have seen rave reviews in
> > this
> > > group for NL and I wondering what is the great difference for people
to go
> > > out and buy this game. Is it the drivers, the tracks, the vehicles,
the
> > > handling??

> > > As someone who has bought the previous Nascar titles based on the
driving
> > > aspect without a great knowledge or respect for the history or inside
> > > information in the day to day of the sport (unlike my interest in
> > Australian
> > > Rules) I'd like to know the reasoning behind the longevity of this
title.

> > > Thanks in advance

by JM » Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:11:16

Looks like it, the shiny coffee table book I got for christmas "Racing
Cars- Masterpieces of Engineering" has a picture of a Mercury Cyclone in
the NASCAR chapter, on the 60's page, mentioned alongside the torino in
the box out (just a different badge really?)

cheers
John

by **REDLINE42** » Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:41:07

The Ford Torino Talladega I think was the name. I can remember seeing some
of these street (hopped up) cars parked on Ocean Ave. down by the boardwalk
in Daytona Beach a couple of summers when I went to the "Firecracker 400".
Roll bars, and sponsor decals on a full sized street car, heh just the thing
to go flat out on I-4 at the time.

Heh I use to know a crazy FBI agent that had a mid 70's Mercury Marauder,
with a 460ci "Interceptor" engine.
Boy did the State Police hate to see this guy on the highway.

I think Nascar Legends had a better A3D sound engine in it than Nascar 3.
Maybe they worked on it a little longer, because it was released after N3? I
don't know, but I used a engine sound mod file from the USPits in both games
and it just seemed to me that Nascar Legends had a better reverberation
sound. Two 1960's era Stereo Tube Amps hooked up to a Diamond Monster Sound
MX300. Yeee Ha, did the neighbors git ta hate me!

The main problem with NL (pre-patch) was that the tires didn't last more
than 20 laps, and the patch didn't help much.
Also the AI pileups during yellows were never completely fixed with the
"Official" patch. But with tweaking of track.ini files and modifying the
driver aggressions ala Nascar 2 days, you could make the AI fairly well
behaved. Many patches and tweaks were written for NL as well as N3,
available on the old sim***world.com and USPits.
Arcade mode was fun to race in online with the tires lasting a more
realistic length (about 1 tank of gas).

Before Nascar Legends was released there was mod files to convert Nascar 99
to run the 70 era of cars. I downloaded all the files but never got around
to reading all the instructions and assembling the game.

But ya know with all the racing sims that have come out in the past couple
of years, it's hard to find the time Ya know?

--
1907 - Daytona Beach Florida

Glenn H. Curtiss rode a V8 powered motorcycle
to a 136.30 mph record in the measured mile.

The Chicago Daily News headline reads:
"Fastest Mile On Earth, Bullets Are The Only Rivals Of Glenn Curtiss"

by **Charlie Busche** » Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:58:36

Physics Physics Physics. I know you guys know but for Barneys sake....
N1, N2, N3, NL are all pretty much the same physics model. Ymenard will
disagree with me <g> If they were different cars would leave the ground as
of N2, Frank <g>. In N4 when a car goes over a rise, without the tires
leaving the ground, there is a loss of traction resulting in a rise in rpms.
Very realistic IMO. Course N4 is GPL ala major improvements graphically
etc.. but thats just one tiny example of the difference on the physics
side.. 3d***pit.. Cars lifting off the ground when sideways/backwards,
course the roof flaps help that out.. In the draft at Dega/Daytona with
worn tires it becomes very obvious that how much you car will push when in
the draft. I swear I've had the air taken off my spoiler on the faster flat
tracks such as Homstead. Animated pitcrew... I wont even get into the
online aspects, a decent league will blow your mind, and give you a heart
attack. There is group of us (Hawaii) who have been waiting for somthing
like N4 for a long time. Physics wise that is. [GPL deserves credit in many
ways]
Charlie

> I used to love NL, but N4's physics model has me spoiled. I've tried going
> back from time to time, but the physics feel so flat. Love those old cars
> and short tracks, though.

> --

> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Morgan Vincent Wooten
> System Specs:
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

> > I think you need to have an interest in the cars of the era, and an
> > appreciation of what the drivers had to cope with at sometimes 200mph+.
> The
> > game is similar to N3, with period tracks (others can be added), and
> period
> > style car handling, with no grip to speak of, and a steering wheel that
> > responds like the tiller on a supertanker. The AI have a higher
aggression
> > rating as well. The pleasure is in mastering this, and once you are used
> to
> > racing a short oval with the car in a constant slide going back to N3
> seems
> > pretty tame. Worth a go, but not many people use it now.
> > Steve

> > > Ok,

> > > Can someone explain to an interested Aussie the differences between
the
> > > Nascar 2, 3 & 4 titles and Nascar Legends. I have seen rave reviews in
> > this
> > > group for NL and I wondering what is the great difference for people
to
> go
> > > out and buy this game. Is it the drivers, the tracks, the vehicles,
the
> > > handling??

> > > As someone who has bought the previous Nascar titles based on the
> driving
> > > aspect without a great knowledge or respect for the history or inside
> > > information in the day to day of the sport (unlike my interest in
> > Australian
> > > Rules) I'd like to know the reasoning behind the longevity of this
> title.

> > > Thanks in advance

by **ymenar** » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 16:20:28

> Physics Physics Physics. I know you guys know but for Barneys sake....
> N1, N2, N3, NL are all pretty much the same physics model. Ymenard will
> disagree with me <g>

Nah Charlie, that is pretty much true ;-D

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www3.sympatico.ca/yves.menard/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **The Other Larr** » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 23:54:40

I would agree that N3 and NL are kissin' cousins, but there's a quite a bit
of difference between N1, N2 and N3/N4.

It's more like [N1/N2] [NR1999} [N3/NL] [N4/NR2002]

Nascar Racing 1999 was an anomoly that should have never existed.

-Larry

> > Physics Physics Physics. I know you guys know but for Barneys
sake....
> > N1, N2, N3, NL are all pretty much the same physics model. Ymenard will
> > disagree with me <g>

> Nah Charlie, that is pretty much true ;-D

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/yves.menard/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Mario Petrinovi** » Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:57:16

I respect your opinion, because I don't now that much. I startet
at the end of N2 era, and right after I bought N1999. It was the best
thing that happened to me, so I don't quite understand your thinking
of it. If you don't have nothing to do, can you please explain it to me
in little more detail. : )
Thanks

rec.autos.simulators

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4

NL vs N2, N3 & N4