rec.autos.simulators

Yes, but you would not manage out of *fear*. That is the total
difference, if you used the same approach asyou did in the sim, you
would have died & G T H plentyful, right?
Also, you would be surprised at how many earthlings actually can make a
race car go pretty fast around a track
after a bit of practice, coaching and a few over-the-limit episodes:)

Greg would probably not care. It is so unthinkable for us to imagine
what he is experiencing, you are quite right, I wouldlike to see weather
too, but only if it could be done in a proper way.

However, I also enjoy it a lot, but I cannot defend it because I like
it. It has a lot of bugs:(

I wonder how much CPU power would be needed to simulate this. In  rain
there are so many factors,you have puddles by kerbs, and in other
places, water running across the track at several places, etc.
It would be great if somebody actually managed to model this.

Matt

--

Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars (http://www.racesimcentral.net/~kareknut)

"Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
       -Cale Yarborough

Are you able to forward one important request for GPL?
In contrast to N2/ICR2 I cannot use a joystick axis for shifting
gears in the GPL demo. It's a demo, but mentioning it early can't
hurt...

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

As others have pointed out, in a real car you'd be rather more concerned
for your safety. And it's always possibly you're pretty good at this kind
of thing! I've spent hours on GPL now and I've only managed a few sub 1:13
laps.

Andrew

You aren't the first person to express this desire.  Papy knows about
it, but I can't say what if anything will come of it...

--
Eric T. Busch

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:06:54 -0400, "David G Fisher"

Okay, one more time :-)

Doing the best you can in all areas is all very well, but the more
areas you have in which to do the best you can, the less well you can
do in each of them. Sure you can put in as much as you can, but when
you cram in too much you end up with..., well, CPR. Look at the
weather in CPR - rain tyres fater than slicks, no difference in
braking points or traction, no aquaplaning, no spray - all in all a
total waste of time. It would be better to not bother with that and to
put those man hours toward doing the AI properly.

As with all things, the supply will delivery what the market wants,
and you can be sure that if enough people want wet weather then it
will be delivered in future Papyrus products, but I have the feeling
that it will be taken on by Papyrus as a big project to be done
properly, not given to the art department to whack on some 3dFX rain
effects.

Sorry if that's lame, but it's also perfectly reasonable to say
nothing of sensible project management and business sense.

Cheers!
John

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:13:03 -0400, "David G Fisher"

I'm not sure if you're trying to be controversial by labelling GPL a
"game", and this has been done to death here already. Whatever your
reason, it's pointless to look at GPL as being "too easy". Okay, you,
I and 99% of other sim fans could never hope to do a 1:10 in a
Lotus-49, but what would be the point of releasing a product that
served only to reveal the shortcomings of the people using it? It
wouldn't exactly be a top seller now would it? Simulate as much as you
can, sure, but it also needs to serve the basic function of being
possible for mere mortals to drive and being fun - a GP car designer
doesn't give a hoot about that, just make it as fast as possible. A
_real_ sim that you could complete about one lap in a hundred wouldn't
be too popular I think.

I've been racing cars in several formulae starting from when I was 10
years old, and anyone who thinks CPR is a better representation of the
way a car handles than GPL is either deluding themselves or is from a
dimension operating to different laws of physics. Honestly, it is that
clear cut. I could list of endless examples, but I'd rather not spend
any more time on CPR, not to mention the fact that it's been discussed
ad nauseam already.

Wow, and now you're giving everyone else a chance to get a laugh at
your posting? Thanks! :-) To paraphrase Orwell, none of these sims are
real, but some are more real than others. GPL is Napoleon - I'll leave
you to work out who CPR represents.

As for learning curve - people are doing 1:07s and you're 3 seconds
behind. Looks like you're a fair way short of mastering GPL.

Well, that's one step forward. Perhaps in the one after that the
weather will actually begin to affect the way the car handles rather
than just looking different.

Cheers!
John

Doug, Doug, he's slagging off your setup! :-)

Cheers!
John

It's not about having no clue, it's about never ACTUALLY driven an F1,
Champ, or '67 Lotus. I didn't say GPL was too easy, just that it isn't much
different from any other sim. And I "asked" if GPL was too slippery in my
original post, not insisted. I'm sure Chris is an excellent sim driver, but
how many hours has he put into GPL? I've had about 3 1/2 total and I'm down
to a 1'08".55. Not bad I think. All the sims are basically the same, you get
the feel, memorize, and anticipate.  I'm sure I can find some children who
can sit down and whip all of us in these sims. Have you ever seen how good
some kids are with driving games? Unreal.

I'm surprised to hear this, actually. People have criticized the smallest
flaws in other sims, but are willing to overlook something as important, to
me at least, as no weather effects in GPL.

Dave

Didn't Napolean ultimately fail.

I said I did sub 1'10's. By that I meant my times were below 1'10" but above
the best times in the 1'07"s. Actually I'm at 1'08".55. At most, I've spent
about 3 1/2 hours behind the wheel. Actually, I doubt I've spent that much
time driving (replays are fun to watch)  :-).  How long did it take you to
get to a 1'08'?

Dave

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:06:54 -0400, "David G Fisher"

My girlfriend had started messing around with driving sims just
because I spent time with them, and used to mess around in ICR2 and
then GPL. A couple of months after getting GPL we were driving to work
in the snow when we hit ice and the car got _real_ sideways. Without
batting an eyelid she applied opposite lock, adjusted the throttle,
gathered the car back up and carried on. She's never done that before
(never having driven on snow before), never experienced a car out of
control like that before and couldn't even describe what she did - she
just did it automatically because that's what had been programmed into
her would work in that situation.

Divine intervention? I doubt it, but a good excuse for spending all
those hours with sims!

That's the same as driving a car - you get the feel, you learn and you
anticipate. As for kids and driving games, you should see kids driving
cars. I started in karts pretty young and raced stock cars starting
when I was 12, and I don't recall having any difficulty against the
six*** year olds in the same class - nor when I was six*** and
racing against the thirty-somethings when I outgrow the young un's
formula. Kids can drive very well, you just ask any policeman in
Manchester who's tried to catch a 10 year old joyrider - no sense of
fear whatsoever makes them hellish difficult to keep in touch with.

It is important, and having weather in GPL would be a HUGE plus. The
flip side of course is that the rest of the sim is good enough to
stand up even without weather, which I felt was the case with GP2 and
ICR2 also. F1RS got it done and done pretty well but CPR is a case in
point - the weather was so bad that it might as well not have been
there, and with or without the weather the rest of the product was so
riddled with holes it wasn't at all enjoyable for most people.

In short weather should be there, but to have weather and a
compromised driving model or AI is a LOT worse than having no weather
at all. In an ideal world every sim would be perfect, but in this
world compromises must always be made. This time weather was a
compromise, next time I hope it won't.

Cheers!
John

Your still not listening ! They do not help you know
what to expect and the imputs are far from being grounded in reality. To
repeat the last poster" no comparison between sim racing and real racing."
Sims are games for fun period.

.

Dave

I'm sure they could do it in a proper way. Sounds to me like we are just
getting excuses from Papyrus.

Right, they had to drive in the rain, or right, the grip levels must be too
slippery as they are right now on the dry Watkin's Glen track?

I saw your web page when I sent you the CPR setup last week and it looks
like you are DEFINITELY a "realtime" racer. It must be an awesome experience
for you to drive those cars!

Dave

You keep bringing up CPR. I'm sure you will see that many of the top CPR
drivers will also be top GPL drivers.

Sounds like another MS shot. Check out MTM2 (I know it's an arcade game) and
the weather effects it has. If Papyrus was capable of what MS has done in
their second release in the past 6 months with concerns to weather, I'm sure
they would have.

Dave