rec.autos.simulators

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

Enzo Ferrar

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Enzo Ferrar » Thu, 15 May 2003 14:34:00

Just caught part of a TLC program called "Countdown to Danger".  It's an
hour-long show and the first half analyzed Senna's fatal crash from 1994
at Imola.

Did anyone see the entire program?  I saw the last half or so on the
crash.  Also, does anybody know if it's on again?  I checked the TV
Guide but couldn't see it.  I'm in Canada...

A couple things they mentioned that I didn't know:

According to the black box data, the steering column broke on impact; it
was not the cause.  Also, due to a prior accident, the safety car was
brought out which cooled the tires causing them to contract and thus
lowering the ride height.  They said that sparks could be seen coming
out the back of Senna's car.  Lastly, I thought he died instantly due to
a piece if metal piercing his helmet.  They said that the right-front
tire hit him in the head and he died 4 hours later in hospital.

Figured I'd pass this along for anybody who's interested.

    - EF

Nigel Nichol

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Nigel Nichol » Thu, 15 May 2003 15:53:27

If it's the same program it was shown here in New Zealand.  It was
apparently a sudden loss of downforce due to the car bottoming out on the
track in a bump as he entered the corner.  He applied 18 degrees right hand
turn to catch the back end of the car but the car suddenly gain back it's
downforce and the 18 degree right hand steer drove the car off the track.  I
understood it was the front wheel being jammed between the wall and his
head.  Pit data showed he had steering on impact and thus the steering
column was broken due to the impact and did cause the crash.

Nigel


> Just caught part of a TLC program called "Countdown to Danger".  It's an
> hour-long show and the first half analyzed Senna's fatal crash from 1994
> at Imola.

> Did anyone see the entire program?  I saw the last half or so on the
> crash.  Also, does anybody know if it's on again?  I checked the TV
> Guide but couldn't see it.  I'm in Canada...

> A couple things they mentioned that I didn't know:

> According to the black box data, the steering column broke on impact; it
> was not the cause.  Also, due to a prior accident, the safety car was
> brought out which cooled the tires causing them to contract and thus
> lowering the ride height.  They said that sparks could be seen coming
> out the back of Senna's car.  Lastly, I thought he died instantly due to
> a piece if metal piercing his helmet.  They said that the right-front
> tire hit him in the head and he died 4 hours later in hospital.

> Figured I'd pass this along for anybody who's interested.

>     - EF

Stephen F

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Stephen F » Thu, 15 May 2003 17:13:44


The "suspension piece piercing the helmet" theory was based on a photo of
Senna's helmet with a neat, round hole at the forehead level.  This was
actually just a normal vent hole which had lost its plastic plug.

aidenn

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by aidenn » Thu, 15 May 2003 20:21:55




> > out the back of Senna's car.  Lastly, I thought he died instantly due to
> > a piece if metal piercing his helmet.  They said that the right-front
> > tire hit him in the head and he died 4 hours later in hospital.

> The "suspension piece piercing the helmet" theory was based on a photo of
> Senna's helmet with a neat, round hole at the forehead level.  This was
> actually just a normal vent hole which had lost its plastic plug.

No, the suspension pierced his visor. The helmet makers said if it had hit
slightly
higher above the visor it  would not have pierced the helmet.
Joachim Trens

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Joachim Trens » Thu, 15 May 2003 22:55:30

I know this has been discussed in great length and from all aspects, but my
personal observation was that I could clearly see fairly severe sparks
coming out from underneath the car for a moment before it started going
straight instead of around the corner.

I've never joined the discussion before as I am aware that watching things
on TV certainly isn't anything compared to all the experts investigating the
case, but throughout all that's been said, I've always continued to believe
that the car simply bottomed out. Maybe Senna'd lowered the ride height a
lot, to be able to beat the at that time new and surprisingly fast
Schumacher, who knows.

Achim


Eldre

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Eldre » Fri, 16 May 2003 07:44:35


>Just caught part of a TLC program called "Countdown to Danger".  It's an
>hour-long show and the first half analyzed Senna's fatal crash from 1994
>at Imola.

>Did anyone see the entire program?  I saw the last half or so on the
>crash.  Also, does anybody know if it's on again?  I checked the TV
>Guide but couldn't see it.  I'm in Canada...

ftp://141.211.234.112/countdown_to_danger_senna_crash.zip
:-)

Eldred
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mark.seer

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by mark.seer » Sat, 17 May 2003 02:32:18

Consistent with the photographs of said components that I have seen. In
these pics, they clearly show a fast  and catastrophic fracture, evidenced
by a coarse and rough surface. A fatigue failure would have been much
smoother and consistant in texture.

Remember we are still in the days of flat bottom cars here where ride
heights were critical within a milimetre or so. Another possibility put
forward was that a tyre might have been suffering with a slow puncture from
a shard of carbon following the startline crash. This might not have been
evident until the cars were back up to racing speed where a more rapid
failure could have occured.

Lastly, I thought he died instantly due to

Photographs of his helmet show a hole where part of a suspension component
pierced it and went through his skull.

Sid Watkins who oversaw his immediate first aid later said that he believed
that Senna died at trackside in terms of brain death although he was kept
biologically alive on life support systems for a number of hours at
hospital. He was quoted as saying "Whilst assessing the extent of his
injuries, he let out a groaning sigh and then went very still and quiet.
This, I believe was when I realised that my friend Ayrton was no longer with
us".

MS

Malc

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Malc » Sat, 17 May 2003 04:27:11



> ftp://141.211.234.112/countdown_to_danger_senna_crash.zip
> :-)

Thanks!

Malc.

Thomas C Norwo

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Thomas C Norwo » Sun, 18 May 2003 04:30:39

Ditto: Thanks!

   - EF


: >Just caught part of a TLC program called "Countdown to Danger".  It's an
: >hour-long show and the first half analyzed Senna's fatal crash from 1994
: >at Imola.
: >
: >Did anyone see the entire program?  I saw the last half or so on the
: >crash.  Also, does anybody know if it's on again?  I checked the TV
: >Guide but couldn't see it.  I'm in Canada...

: ftp://141.211.234.112/countdown_to_danger_senna_crash.zip
: :-)

: Eldred
: --
: Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
: GPLRank:-1.950
: MonsterRank: +305.145
: N2002 Rank:+17.59

: Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
: with experience...
: Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Joachim Blu

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Joachim Blu » Sun, 18 May 2003 21:09:25




writes:

> ftp://141.211.234.112/countdown_to_danger_senna_crash.zip
> :-)

Now, that's what I call service. Muchas gracias. Downloading...

Best regards
Crash

Eldre

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Eldre » Mon, 19 May 2003 00:25:35






>writes:

>> ftp://141.211.234.112/countdown_to_danger_senna_crash.zip
>> :-)

>Now, that's what I call service. Muchas gracias. Downloading...

Hey, I try to be helpful.  Since I can't give any DRIVING tips<g>, I do what I
can...
:-)
You're welcome, guys.  PedX is the person who sent me the file.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
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Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Joachim Blu

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Joachim Blu » Mon, 19 May 2003 01:28:33








> >writes:

> >> ftp://141.211.234.112/countdown_to_danger_senna_crash.zip
> >> :-)

> >Now, that's what I call service. Muchas gracias. Downloading...

> Hey, I try to be helpful.  Since I can't give any DRIVING tips<g>, I
do what I
> can...
> :-)
> You're welcome, guys.  PedX is the person who sent me the file.

Sh*t! Unfortunately the connection broke up after 56% and my ftp program
(which is capable of resume) can't reconnect. Eldred, could you please
fix that?

Best regards
Crash

Eldre

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Eldre » Mon, 19 May 2003 20:56:02



>Sh*t! Unfortunately the connection broke up after 56% and my ftp program
>(which is capable of resume) can't reconnect. Eldred, could you please
>fix that?

Fix what?  It's still up.  I just tried to connect, and it works fine...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-1.950
MonsterRank: +305.145
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Joachim Blu

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Joachim Blu » Tue, 20 May 2003 01:06:50





> Fix what?  It's still up.  I just tried to connect, and it works

fine...

Ok, works again now. The glitch must have been on the long way between
my 'puter and your ftp. Let's hope I can get it complete this time ;).

Best regards
Crash

Larr

OT: TLC program on Senna's crash

by Larr » Tue, 20 May 2003 03:08:19

It no workie...

Larry



> >Just caught part of a TLC program called "Countdown to Danger".  It's an
> >hour-long show and the first half analyzed Senna's fatal crash from 1994
> >at Imola.

> >Did anyone see the entire program?  I saw the last half or so on the
> >crash.  Also, does anybody know if it's on again?  I checked the TV
> >Guide but couldn't see it.  I'm in Canada...

> ftp://141.211.234.112/countdown_to_danger_senna_crash.zip
> :-)

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:-1.950
> MonsterRank: +305.145
> N2002 Rank:+17.59

> Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.


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