rec.autos.simulators

Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited

Who else here thinks that the use of the name "Hakenkreuz"
is inappropriate beyond endurance and will back me up ?

--
Greg Hellmann

Hakenkreuz schrieb in Nachricht

What happened to freedom of speech, freedom of political expression
and freedom or religion? I can't say I agree with the views that
particular symbol is used to promote, but others hold those views.

The only wierd thing would be if he is not beliving in those views,
others may be upset at him for no reason.

Basically no problem for me.

Cheers!
John

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

I've read some other respondents', er. . . . responses to your request, and,
as is their right, they don't have a problem with Mr. (Ms.?) Swastika's
"name."  I suppose I find it less offensive than simply banal.  It's strange
how even something as horrific as the Nazi regime (yes, yes, he/she may
point out the swastika's not _exclusively_ a Nazi symbol--yawn, of course,
of course . . .), can be appropriated and water-down to where it becomes
just another label for resentment and wanna-be hyper-masculinity.  Like
calling yourself "killer" because you like to get rowdy with the boys.

So I'll say, fine, "hakenkreuz," call yourself what you will.  Posturing is
allowed.

DK

PS  Unlike some, I don't think R.A.S. should be, or can be, some sort of
pure space devoid of politics or morality.  A little m***crusading is good
for the soul--may get you an extra tenth with the Powers That Be.

i never thought i would actually disagree with something
you post, so please - while you read my answer - be aware
that it was written with all due respect.

Freedom of speech or political statement is not boundless.
Rule of law, democracy, human rights are superior principles.
But apart from the fact that a particular basic right (ie freedom
of speech) can be of less significance than other constitutional
principles that weigh a lot stronger, i don't understand why you
would approach the "Swastika" symbol and the despicable
ideology that it represented in the 20th century in this very context;
disdaining the millions that were ***ed in the concentration
camps. Perhaps you could point out to me what you mean.

I don't think we're talking about a religion here, but an ideology
that disregarded human rights that are far more fundamental
than the ones you enumerated above (but those as well).

I agree with you that everybody should of course be entitled to their
opinions, and of course i accept your indifference to this.
However, unlike you i can't pass over this in silence (like it was only
a rude remark of some troll).

It is criminal offence to use this marks where i live.
I am really sorry for this highly off topic post.

--
Greg Hellmann

I agree with most everything you say.  Yes, "freedom of speech" is not
boundless, nor has it been held to be so here by the US Supreme Court.  Some
forget that and just immediately respond knee-jerk-like that anything said is
allowed citing the phrase "freedom of speech".  Like every right, it is
weighed against every other.  The oft-cited yelling "fire" in a crowded
theater is not the only case where freedom of speech is curtailed. Some
statements are not only reprehensible, but also illegal.  Like most
everything, it isn't a black/white issue.  But in the light of "weighing"
rights, I cannot fully agree with your following statement: that it takes a
back-seat to "rule of law, democracy, human rights".  It must be balanced
against there, not be considered inferior.  Do realize that different
societies will weigh freedom of speech differently.  I think we hold it in
very high standing here.

OTOH, one should bear in mind that, yes, the swastika is an illegal symbol in
Germany.  One should respect the view of others.  Inciting, for the sole
purpose of doing so is obnoxious, anti-social, and in some cases, illegal. So,
I wouldn't be quick to defend the instigator here.  He's probably an a**hole.

And I to do apologize for the off-topic'ness of this.

(I was friendly the first time I saw him post, so there... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.racesimcentral.net/;

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Remco

The "Hakenkreuz" was used by the Nazis. The poster with this handle is
aware of that, so I guess he is trying to offend.

Remco