rec.autos.simulators

Cheers,
Ron.

You're quite correct. It's a known bug in N2003. In our league it's
addressed by changing the track.ini to more realistic values.

Bye,
Leo

But I thought Papyus games were perfect??

Recreational troll alert.

Jan.
=---

No one seems to be doing this in their addon tracks, but everytime
I've added it to a track my tire temps came back to where I'd expect.

There's a mention of this in the readme for the patch.

Jason

"Additionally using "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically
turns on the "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use
the "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to be
counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road course
Sierra.com ratings, etc.)."

Note that none of the Papy road courses have this setting.  Possibly it
doesn't matter as much with the Cup physics.

Nevertheless I don't doubt that you are correct and I went ahead and added
it to all my road course files.  Can't hurt.  Interestingly Norisring has
the track_dir set to 1, i.e. left handed, which I would think would not be
desirable.

I think we should make sure that whomever is running the RASCAR server also
makes this change to their files, otherwise the road courses with TA physics
could require an excessive amount of pitting.

Anyway it looks like the track makers are starting to figure this out, so
hopefully soon this problem will disappear.

As far as I remember, track type just changes the track rules, chassis
type determines the chassis rules (restrictor plate, aero package,
etc), and track_dir determines the tires that are put on the car.  

PMP is more of a superspeedway than a road course, so it wouldn't
surprise me if they set it up to use oval rules.

Jason

I tried that Jason, but it made no difference.
Using the long straight at Le Mans as an example, I tried both with that
line and without it in the track.ini, and in both cases the RF was 15
degrees hotter than the LF by the time I reached the braking zone.
If anything, the LF should have been hotter as the only turn in the whole
straight is to the left.. :)
That was using symmetrical settings, so the problem is a bit deeper than
that.
Thanks for the comments though, it was worth a try.
I hope Papy address this problem, though I can't see that happening..   It
tends to put a bit of a downer on the whole road racing thing, IMO.
It seems a bit sad when we can't set up a car with proper symmetrical
settings and expect to see those settings transfer to the chassis in a real
life scenario.
This only seems to be a problem on road circuits.
If there were temp adjustments for all 4 tires in the track.ini, then we
could do it cheap and *** by adjusting the RF back a bit, but that
doesn't seem to be an option.  Besides, that is only putting a bandaid on
the problem, not addressing it.
Here's hoping it will be fixed..

Cheers,
Ron

Abt. the only roadie where I have a *lot* of trouble keeping the RF under
200 deg. is Badone.  Other than that, I have been able to use the weights,
wedge, tape, TPs, springs and shox to more-or-less equalize the temps,
corner to corner, and across the tread.

BTW, despite the extreme cambers seen in GPL (never mind RW cars like last
year's McLaren), Papy seems to have moved more toward F1C and NH in terms of
camber thrust: whereas 6-8 (or even 10) deg. hotter on the inside was the
norm before, 4-6 seems to work better in N2003, at least on the roadies.  I
go for the same temp difference betw. inner & outer temps on the front tires
as -1.80 deg. camber provides at the rear.

-Larry

I gather that track_dir = 0 indicates roadies w. pre***ly *righthand*
turns (as most are), but that = 1 is for tracks like Laguna that are run
counterclockwise.  Would that mean = 1 would put harder tires on the right
side of the car?  (Presumably you wouldn't want to favor one side or the
other on jillion-turn tracks like the Nurburgring, Charade or Dundrod, so
you'd omit the line entirely.)  Which roadies are counterclockwise, other
than Laguna?  Badone, Norisring, Roadone, Sandown, Steel, Surfers, and ????

-----
TRACK DIRECTION SETTING

There's a new line which can be added the TRACK.INI near where you
specify chassis and track types, called "track_dir".  A setting of "1"
means the track turns left or counter-clockwise only, so the normal
"inside=left" and "outside=right" spotter is used, and tires are
mounted on the car for turning left.  A setting of "-1" means it's a
right or clockwise track, so a reversed "outside=left" and
"inside=right" spotter is used, and the tires are mounted on opposite
sides than a left track.  A setting of "0" means the track turns both
left and right, so the spotter will only refer to "left" and "right"
instead of "inside" and "outside", and only "outside" tires are
mounted on the car so it can turn in both directions equally.

Note that by default the game assumes a track is a left-hand oval, so
for most tracks this setting will be absent.  Additionally using
"track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the
"left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the
"track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to
be counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road
course Sierra.com ratings, etc.).
-----

Jason

Hi Steve,

Yeah, I have the latest patch installed.
Like I said earlier, it can be dialled out, but to do so, it requires
un-realistic settings to achieve even temp readings across the four wheels.
I shouldn't have to compromise the handling and chassis response to reduce
the tire heat build-up on the RF.
This is definitely a problem with the physics engine and one I think needs
to be addressed before the roadies can be taken serious in NR2003.
Just try a trip down Le Mans, or any other long straight on a road circuit,
the RF will heat up, even if no lateral weight transfer is happening, so
something ain't quite right..
I even tried 0.00 settings of toe, in case there was a flaw in the
calculations on the RF when applied to toe settings (not even sure if heat
build-up due to excessive toe settings is modelled in NR2003), but no dice.
A trip down Le Mans straight will soon show a 15-20 degree higher RF tire
heat reading than the LF.  That's using a neutral setting.
If I really wanted to dial most of it out, I can achieve a reasonable
success rate using wedge, suspension settings and tire pressure changes,
but that is just hiding the fact there is something wrong with the physics
engine in the calculation of tire heat build-up on the RF.   It also
compromises the chassis response when we need to adjust the settings to
un-real specs just to achieve even tire temps on a road circuit like Le
Mans, where the LF should actually get hotter than the RF, not the other
way around. :)

Cheers,
Ron

Further, I don't understand what the readme means by "outside" tires.  Is
this a compound issue (logically, harder tires would be on the outside) or a
stagger issue (in the RW, slightly larger-dia. tires would be mounted on the
RR for ovals)?  Or what?  I'm confused....