rec.autos.simulators

by **John Walla** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:41:10 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>Wheels not tires... When the cars come into the pits and the crew
>changes the tires, you see the dust from the brakes being so hot. Same
>effect in F1RS. You don't think it is smoke caused by the tire skidding
>do you?

Well, you've certainly got me there, I've never seen that effect in
F1RS although I have of course seen it in real F1. Perhaps I just
switch off when the car comes into the pits (or more likely I am
flapping furiously as I try to remember the keystrokes and tell the
crew what I want as the field streams by...). I'll have a look next
time I play.

Is this something you see only in the pits, or do you also see this
under braking as someone else suggested in an earlier post?

Cheers!
John

by **Randy Magrud** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>Under these conditions I can see why you are not thrilled about
>the game.

Well, its Ubi's responsibility to fix the bugs in their D3D version.
Whether you like or hate D3D, its not an excuse for the mirrors
causing lock-ups.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Randy Magrud** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>Different people have different tastes. I too, agree that F1RS is the best
>thing to come out in a long, long while. However, if everyone agreed with me
>all the time, it would be a very boring world. If Randy likes GP2 better than
>F1RS, then so be it. They are both awesome games. Now if he starts liking
>"ABC's Road To Indy" or CPR (in it's current weak AI state) better, we'll have
>to reevaluate this different tastes thing!<BG>

First of all, I'm trying really hard to get to the point where I
really like F1RS. Every time I hear the sound I'm reminded of what a
steep challenge it is, though <GG> Seriously, I've spent a couple of
hours at Spa and gone from a doggone disgraceful 2 minute lap down to
1:54. I had a 1:52 going but spun out in the bus-stop chicane. Oh
well. One thing I've noticed is that camber doesn't seem to have any
effect on tire temps. Has anyone else noticed that? I looked at the
temps, and then changed camber and tires, and the next set showed much
the same results. I got drastic in my changes, and still the same
results. The outsides were always too hot no matter how much negative
camber I added.

And another thing, why don't more people complain about the slow-down
glue anywhere off track. Put a wheel off, car suddenly grabs and
slows down. Its so ridiculous. Lets face it, CPR models off-track
kinetics much better than F1RS does.

Regarding Road to Indy, I still feel like it didn't get a fair shake,
mainly because of its damage model and AI. I felt like the actual
driving model was pretty good at the highest difficulty levels. I
think its closer to being a "complete sim" than CPR is right now.
After all, there ARE yellows in Road to Indy, the driving model is
decent, and really what it needs is a lot more damage possible to the
car and an AI boost. Who knows if we're ever going to see that,
though.

Anyway, F1RS and NASCAR 2 are the 2 sims I spend the most time on now.

Randy

Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Randy Magrud** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>Does this happen in other than 1st gear? I notice something similar if I
>am not careful with the throttle in 1st but haven't really noticed
>anything similar in other gears. The default 1st gear is way too low and
>1st should only be used at *very* slow corners so I don't find it a
>problem.

I find it to be true for 2nd and 3rd as well, but not quite as bad.
Ultimately I feel like I have to slowwwwwwly add throttle coming off
every corner, and the AI cars are cornering much better than I am. A
classic example is at Spa. There's a double left hander (I forget the
turn #'s/names) where the first one seems to drop me to 3rd gear and
then I can accelerate up through 4th gear and take the second one flat
out since its more of a kink. Even if I've gotten by an AI car
earlier, it seems to be able to take that 3rd gear first left faster
than I am, and it takes all I've got to hold him off, mainly because I
just can't get in the throttle that fast without pushing right off the
road. After 2 hours of intense setups, I have made a rather loose
setup where quick nudges of the gas into the redline will break the
wheels loose and help me slide the car around the turns more, but then
I have a harder time getting the grip back in time to get a good run
off the corner. There is definitely much to appreciate in this sim,
but there's still something wrong in my book. These F1RS cars just
don't feel as agile as they look and feel in other sims and in TV
footage of real cars (though the AI cars seem to have no such
problems).

If you get a chance take F1:Ce out for a spin. And try several
different engine makes. Its the best I've seen at giving each car its
own personality!

That ain't saying much, Richard. GP2's tracks are horrendous at best
at least when comparing them to the real tracks.

Thanks for noticing :)

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>First of all, I'm trying really hard to get to the point where I
>really like F1RS. Every time I hear the sound I'm reminded of what a
>steep challenge it is, though <GG> Seriously, I've spent a couple of
>hours at Spa and gone from a doggone disgraceful 2 minute lap down to
>1:54. I had a 1:52 going but spun out in the bus-stop chicane. Oh
>well. One thing I've noticed is that camber doesn't seem to have any
>effect on tire temps. Has anyone else noticed that? I looked at the

Alison did. I mentioned that at Silverstone I used camber to change
the tire temps so that they were all equal. So in the one time I tried
setting up the car, the camber worked. Are there any other settings
which could be affecting that?

Maybe allot of us don't go off track :-) Seriously though I think it is a
good
way to model the gravel traps, where you do get bogged down. Maybe they
just model that for going off the road in general?

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by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> > Hi all,
> >I know I will probably feel the flames for this but I just sold my F1rs
> >tonight for these very same reasons,1.) This zero to hero rpm is so

> No flames, just amazement.
> --

Yeah, I guess this means he's gone off race sims altogether!

by **Remco Moe** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Hi Randy,

I've got a Pent II With a Diamond Viper 330 AGP. (Almost simular to
your system). I've no problem what so ever running F1RS, the D3D
version.
I'm running with mirrors on, using F1RS 1.05. Maybe you should check
out the nVidia OpenGL drivers, currently in Alpha 2 release.
(They are available at The RIVA USERS GROUP http://www.rivazone.com/)

Cheers!

Remco

>>Under these conditions I can see why you are not thrilled about
>>the game.

>Well, its Ubi's responsibility to fix the bugs in their D3D version.
>Whether you like or hate D3D, its not an excuse for the mirrors
>causing lock-ups.

>Randy
>Randy Magruder
>Contributing Reviewer
>Digital Sportspage
>http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>I find it to be true for 2nd and 3rd as well, but not quite as bad.
>Ultimately I feel like I have to slowwwwwwly add throttle coming off
>every corner, and the AI cars are cornering much better than I am. A

What AI level?

Yes this is a 3rd gear corner. In GP2 you could almost take this one
in 3rd full throttle. F1RS seems more tricky though. At least with the
stock setup.

Yes, I find that I accelerate up to 5th then drop to 4th as I enter this one
and keep full throttle in 4th. I momentarily end up in 6th as I come to the
fast 3rd gear esses.

Well it could be realistic. After all I noticed that even against the AMRT
AI, even though I am lapping 3-4 seconds faster (for the most part)
they are still faster than I am in certain parts of the track. The inner
hairpin at Magny Cours is a good example where the AI was much
faster than I. But they would just get creamed in the fast turns.

Frankly I have the opposite impression. IMHO they are very agile and
exactly what I see from the TV footage.

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by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:41:10 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>>Wheels not tires... When the cars come into the pits and the crew
>>changes the tires, you see the dust from the brakes being so hot. Same
>>effect in F1RS. You don't think it is smoke caused by the tire skidding
>>do you?

>Well, you've certainly got me there, I've never seen that effect in
>F1RS although I have of course seen it in real F1. Perhaps I just

That was my point :-)

You see it any time you stop. Just do a practice session. Get to the
track and stop. Then very slightly go forward and stop. You will not skid
and you will see the dusk/smoke come up from the inner part of the wheels.
You don't need to go fast at all. I have seen it on every braking to a stop
(forward or reverse) whether I skid or not. I do believe they are modeling
hot brakes :-)

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>> > Hi all,
>> >I know I will probably feel the flames for this but I just sold my F1rs
>> >tonight for these very same reasons,1.) This zero to hero rpm is so

>> No flames, just amazement.
>> --

> Yeah, I guess this means he's gone off race sims altogether!

No not at all. Just off his rocker :-)

--
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by **Remco Moe** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Hi John,

As mentioned before, when pitting hit the BS key, then hit the Pause
key, get something to drink, go to the bathroom, make your choice,
hit the BS key, and finally the Pause key.

Cheers!

Remco

> Perhaps I just
>switch off when the car comes into the pits (or more likely I am
>flapping furiously as I try to remember the keystrokes and tell the
>crew what I want as the field streams by...). I'll have a look next
>time I play.

by **John Walla** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>well. One thing I've noticed is that camber doesn't seem to have any
>effect on tire temps. Has anyone else noticed that?

I had a moan about that in the Sim News review. A bit wierd. The
dampers were also wierd originally (reversed) but that was fixed in
the first patch).

Another thing I really hate in a sim. I never liked the way Papyrus
put walls around the tracks, I disliked the way SODA and F1RS have
grass with velcro-like properties and I even disliked GP2's black
flag. Where's the fun in*** a wheel of the track only to be
grabbed and slowed down? It kills the atmosphere. So far TOCA and CPR
are the ones to do this right :-) Let me cut corners if that's what I
really want to do but make the grass and gravel realistically affect
the car.

Cheers!
John

by **Mikes Design** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>> > Hi all,
>> >I know I will probably feel the flames for this but I just sold my F1rs
>> >tonight for these very same reasons,1.) This zero to hero rpm is so

>> No flames, just amazement.
>> --

> Yeah, I guess this means he's gone off race sims altogether!
>No not at all. Just off his rocker :-)

No never fear still like race sims and not gone insane ;-) Perhaps I will
retry it when VooDoo2 comes out as thats when I will get a card. After all
the posts here I really do think that F1rs is probably a better sim with a
3dfx card than what I was seeing with my Riva. But....
I also think that might hold true for other sims that were written for D3D
and tried on 3dfx. I normally would never sell any sim/game as I might see
it differently in a few weeks. I only sold it because of all the posts from
folks here that seemed to be having a hard time obtaining one. Cya, Mike
--
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by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>>No not at all. Just off his rocker :-)

>No never fear still like race sims and not gone insane ;-) Perhaps I will
>retry it when VooDoo2 comes out as thats when I will get a card. After all
>the posts here I really do think that F1rs is probably a better sim with a
>3dfx card than what I was seeing with my Riva. But....

Ahh... That explains it then. I didn't know you had a Riva. I thought you
had a 3dfx and still sold F1RS. OK I take everything back :-)

This has been the experience of many including myself. 3dfx has a 50%+
market share for a reason. I can understand people wanting an all in one
video card. IMHO that card hasn't been made yet :-) If you do ever get 3dfx
by all means try F1RS again.

I was reading the F1RS FAQ on the UBIsoft web site. There were several
parts that said something to the effect "if you cannot or do not want to get
a 3dfx card and the game is still not performing properly, try to return
it".
That isn't an exact quote. But that is the spirit of the quote. Clearly if
you
don't have 3dfx for F1RS, you will be lacking.

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by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>The only thing I could think of is that if you 'curb' the wheels a lot
>its the outsides that are going to take most of the beating, but I
>just don't see this accounting for the changes. FWIW, my experience
>was at Spa (where, btw, my time is down to 1:51.5 --not bad for a
>couple of hours work starting from 2 minutes per lap :) )

It is a good time. It is 6 seconds faster than I do with a stock setup...

In F1 they go off the track mostly in the esses and survive the race
more. If they go off in a sand trap the race is most likely over (but
then you know this). Of all the forma of racing F1 is much more
unforgiving if you go off the track. I have lightly hit some grass
and kicked up dust in F1RS and still maintained a vast majority
of my momentium. I guess I don't see this as that much of a problem.
Or a problem at all.

I always thought the GP2 gravel was cheesy because you could get
out once you stopped. But I am sure they allowed you to get out
for playability. If I remember correctly it was much easier to get out of
a GP2 gravel trap than it is to get out of a F1RS gravel trap. And how
about those Fred Flinstone size stones that GP2 kicks up? I do
like the fact that when you go off track in F1RS, you see your tires
get dirty. You also loose much traction for a while until the tires clean
off. Did GP2 do this?

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rec.autos.simulators

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Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site