rec.autos.simulators

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

Randy Magrud

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Randy Magrud » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00


>Not for me. I find it quite good (since it *IS* a Renault engine
>sound) compared to what I have heard on ESPN2.

So is the Psygnosis model.  In case you didn't know, Psygnosis
strapped a DAT recorder to a driver's body.  They also did something I
don't think F1RS did:  They recorded the sounds of each of the
different cars.  A Ferrari sounds  TOTALLY different than a Williams
which sounds totally different than the McLaren Mercedes.  Its really
neat in F1:CE to drive the different cars because they sound different
and handle different.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Greg Cisk

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Two of the more cool visuals are the dust that kicks up when you
get into gravel, and the brake dust that rises off the wheels when
 you stop. Attention to detail in this sim is astounding. Do D3D
people see this?

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.


>Most of your points are valid IMO.



>>I would love to believe that.  But I'm running on a P300 and the frame
>>rate is just fine.  I dont have to turn off details at all to get a
>>smooth frame rate.  I find it hard to believe that the physics model
>>is affected by which video board I'm running.  My complaints are not
>>with the graphics.  Secondly, the 3DFX isn't going to help the sound,
>>is it?

> I haven't tried it with software only yet ( I would have to disable
>my 3dfx drivers which is a hassle), but I doubt that you would get the
>transparency and atmospheric effects (fogging,  haze and smoke) that
>hardware acceleration offers.  Not essential for the racing, but it
>definitely contributes greatly to the overall immersion (at least for
>some people).

><..>
>>1.  The "digital throttle" problem.  Its like there's a certain spot
>>in the accelerator travel where a touch back and the engine note drops
>>like I've just jumped out of the gas, then perhaps 1/4 of an inch and
>>its okay, and then another 1/4 of an inch (WELL short of fully down)
>>the pitch zooms up and the rev lights slam .  I feel like I'm playing
>>with a three way switch instead of an analog pedal.  There's lifting,
>>neutral-to-mildly accelerating, and slamming it, all in less than an
>>inch of pedal travel.

>This bothered me at first also.  But after fiddling with the
>accelerator sensitivity and with more practice learning the driving
>model, it is now possible for me to have constantly smooth transitions
>between acceleration and de acceleration (just like the AI cars do).
>I think this is a key factor in being able to drive this sim: It
>requires a much lighter touch of controls in order to not break the
>traction.  My problems with controlling the car are diminishing as I
>become more proficient in controlling the degree of movement of the
>accelerator and brake (along with getting to know the effects of
>parameter changes in setting up the car).

>>2.  Canned spins.  The initial spinning attempts don't bother me much.
>>I can correct a lot of them.  But sometimes, particularly at low
>>speeds after the car loses its momentum, its more or less sitting
>>still and some 'spin the sucker' routine kicks and slowly moves me
>>around some random amount.  It seems completely disconnected with the
>>earlier part of the spin, which was right.

>Yes they definitely are canned after about a 90 degree angle to the
>road.  And I agree that the low speed rotation which continues for
>ever as long as some throttle is applied is completely rediculous.
>But once the car more than 90 degrees out of whack, the major racing
>damage has already been done.  It is possible to correct spins prior
>to about a 90 degree rotation.  Removing any acceleration and applying
>some brake will reduce the spin at any point.  Whether this is totally
>realistic or not is a different issue.

>>3.  The pitch of the engine and the shifting sounds just totally grate
>>on me.  The best F1 sounds I have heard yet continue to be those from
>>Psygnosis F1:Championship Edition on the Playstation (not to be
>>confused with their first Formula One game).

>I know what you mean about the sounds.  Listening to the GP2 engine's
>mean and complex harmonics with the occasional rapping off when
>de-accelerating is much more appealing to me.  OTOH, the lack of
>hearing other car's sounds in GP2 was always less then satisfying to
>me (as well as not providing the audible feedback for knowing where
>other cars are when in close proximity).

>>I just spend too much time fighting with the unpredictable driving
>>model to really enjoy myself.  I'm hoping that I can find what it is
>>everyone is so happy about.  I really love F1 and would love to get a
>>breakthrough on this because its obvious a lot of people really like
>>it.  If I could be talked into loving something, I'd love F1RS :)

>Well nothing is or ever will be perfect.  But F1RS does excel in many
>ways over what I have seen previously and at least provides an
>alternative to GP2.  Of course, everyone has different criteria as to
>what is important.

>Dave.

Greg Cisk

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00



>>Not for me. I find it quite good (since it *IS* a Renault engine
>>sound) compared to what I have heard on ESPN2.

>So is the Psygnosis model.  In case you didn't know, Psygnosis

I really like the Psygnosis sound. I especially liked the reverbration
in the tunnel at monaco. Too bad the rest of the game was horrid.
The inability to save any setting was what caused me to return it.
At least F1RS will save settings. At least until you change modes.

BTW, F1RS has the same game driving view as Psygnosis F1.
I think it is F3 or F4. Kind of interesting that they would include
that view :-)

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Greg Cisk

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00



No flames, just amazement.
--
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Greg Cisk

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00


>>This bothered me at first also.  But after fiddling with the
>>accelerator sensitivity and with more practice learning the driving
>>model, it is now possible for me to have constantly smooth transitions
>>between acceleration and de acceleration (just like the AI cars do).

>Please send me your sensitivity settings.

I just checked mine. The steering, accelerator & brake are all at 80%.
I think you may want to crank your accelerator sensitivity down to
40% or 50% since it bothers you. I thought the manual said these
settings were for keyboard control though? Well if it works what
the heck!

--
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papa..

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by papa.. » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00

My GP1Wheel   is perfect...absolutely no wierdness. I also disable
poll with interupts and select TM wheel w/adapter...when calibrating I
not only move the sticks to the side to side but also after moving the
paddles up and down then move the wheel side to side with the paddles
depressed individually. Is that clear...hehehe...works great...

I also have moved the sliders down to 3/4 except for brake....thats
full up.

Also have disabled limited steering sorry dont know the exact
name...and Im in my NT4 boot so cant go find out....

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...

papa..

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by papa.. » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00

The D3D people are missing more than they think...but maybe less than
requires them to buy a Voodoo...up to them...I cant see givng this sim
less than 100% in the video card depart.

PAPA DOC

>Two of the more cool visuals are the dust that kicks up when you
>get into gravel, and the brake dust that rises off the wheels when
> you stop. Attention to detail in this sim is astounding. Do D3D
>people see this?

>--
>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.


>>Most of your points are valid IMO.



>>>I would love to believe that.  But I'm running on a P300 and the frame
>>>rate is just fine.  I dont have to turn off details at all to get a
>>>smooth frame rate.  I find it hard to believe that the physics model
>>>is affected by which video board I'm running.  My complaints are not
>>>with the graphics.  Secondly, the 3DFX isn't going to help the sound,
>>>is it?

>> I haven't tried it with software only yet ( I would have to disable
>>my 3dfx drivers which is a hassle), but I doubt that you would get the
>>transparency and atmospheric effects (fogging,  haze and smoke) that
>>hardware acceleration offers.  Not essential for the racing, but it
>>definitely contributes greatly to the overall immersion (at least for
>>some people).

>><..>
>>>1.  The "digital throttle" problem.  Its like there's a certain spot
>>>in the accelerator travel where a touch back and the engine note drops
>>>like I've just jumped out of the gas, then perhaps 1/4 of an inch and
>>>its okay, and then another 1/4 of an inch (WELL short of fully down)
>>>the pitch zooms up and the rev lights slam .  I feel like I'm playing
>>>with a three way switch instead of an analog pedal.  There's lifting,
>>>neutral-to-mildly accelerating, and slamming it, all in less than an
>>>inch of pedal travel.

>>This bothered me at first also.  But after fiddling with the
>>accelerator sensitivity and with more practice learning the driving
>>model, it is now possible for me to have constantly smooth transitions
>>between acceleration and de acceleration (just like the AI cars do).
>>I think this is a key factor in being able to drive this sim: It
>>requires a much lighter touch of controls in order to not break the
>>traction.  My problems with controlling the car are diminishing as I
>>become more proficient in controlling the degree of movement of the
>>accelerator and brake (along with getting to know the effects of
>>parameter changes in setting up the car).

>>>2.  Canned spins.  The initial spinning attempts don't bother me much.
>>>I can correct a lot of them.  But sometimes, particularly at low
>>>speeds after the car loses its momentum, its more or less sitting
>>>still and some 'spin the sucker' routine kicks and slowly moves me
>>>around some random amount.  It seems completely disconnected with the
>>>earlier part of the spin, which was right.

>>Yes they definitely are canned after about a 90 degree angle to the
>>road.  And I agree that the low speed rotation which continues for
>>ever as long as some throttle is applied is completely rediculous.
>>But once the car more than 90 degrees out of whack, the major racing
>>damage has already been done.  It is possible to correct spins prior
>>to about a 90 degree rotation.  Removing any acceleration and applying
>>some brake will reduce the spin at any point.  Whether this is totally
>>realistic or not is a different issue.

>>>3.  The pitch of the engine and the shifting sounds just totally grate
>>>on me.  The best F1 sounds I have heard yet continue to be those from
>>>Psygnosis F1:Championship Edition on the Playstation (not to be
>>>confused with their first Formula One game).

>>I know what you mean about the sounds.  Listening to the GP2 engine's
>>mean and complex harmonics with the occasional rapping off when
>>de-accelerating is much more appealing to me.  OTOH, the lack of
>>hearing other car's sounds in GP2 was always less then satisfying to
>>me (as well as not providing the audible feedback for knowing where
>>other cars are when in close proximity).

>>>I just spend too much time fighting with the unpredictable driving
>>>model to really enjoy myself.  I'm hoping that I can find what it is
>>>everyone is so happy about.  I really love F1 and would love to get a
>>>breakthrough on this because its obvious a lot of people really like
>>>it.  If I could be talked into loving something, I'd love F1RS :)

>>Well nothing is or ever will be perfect.  But F1RS does excel in many
>>ways over what I have seen previously and at least provides an
>>alternative to GP2.  Of course, everyone has different criteria as to
>>what is important.

>>Dave.

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...

Kevi

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Kevi » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00


>problem.  Its like there's a certain spot
>> in the accelerator travel where a touch back and the engine note drops
>> like I've just jumped out of the gas, then perhaps 1/4 of an inch and
>> its okay, and then another 1/4 of an inch (WELL short of fully down)
>> the pitch zooms up and the rev lights slam .  I feel like I'm playing
>> with a three way switch instead of an analog pedal.  There's lifting,
>> neutral-to-mildly accelerating, and slamming it, all in less than an
>> inch of pedal travel.

Does this only happen in low gears and are the RPMs shooting up because of
tire spin.  Check your rear view mirror and see if there is tire smoke.
I've also noticed that the tires seem to spin more easily for a while after
you go on the grass or gravel.
--
Kevin
(Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)
Joachim Trens

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Joachim Trens » Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Hi Greg,

PMJI - I remember having a similar discussion with Randy on another sim -
was it GP2? He also wasn't happy at all, when I (and most everyone else)
thought the sim was a thrill. I think Randy will pick up on it later - when
we've moved on to the next sim ;-)

I agree with you - F1RS is also a milestone. and with the patches coming in
such a quick succession, I'm willing to give Ubi a definite and clear thumbs
up!

Achim


>I am really confused. I am using the stock setups on all the tracks to just
>get used to them all. Then I was going to do a 25% championship season.

....
>--
>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.


Byron Forbe

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Byron Forbe » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00



> >This weekend I had a marathon session of racing F1RS online.  I'm more
> >e***d than ever about the incredible realism of this sim.  There is
> >nothing else in the published sim world like it!  Hurling the car over
> >the bumps at Nurburgring, or flying through the forest at Spa...it's
> >hard to believe a racing sim can be so real, or so satisfying.

> Alison, you make me want to boot the thing up right now and play it,
> you're so enthusiastic.  But I'll be darned if I still don't end up
> feeling a little flat after playing it.  Perhaps you could tell me
> what your FAVORITE track is and what your favorite setup is (i.e. send
> it to me or point me to a link).  Also, tell me what your control
> config is set to.  I'll try to duplicate your wonderfully blissful
> setup as best I can and then spend a couple of hours working hard at
> bettering myself and see if I can't just find that sim-racing nirvana
> that has eluded me with this one.

> Randy
> Randy Magruder
> Contributing Reviewer
> Digital Sportspage
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

    I have a Mad Catz wheel and this is what works for me.

Calibration - T2 with adapter
              - Make sure that stupid "pole with interupts" is OFF (in
the advanced section)
              - when calibrating move the wheel/pedals to extremities
about 3 times.
              - And dont forget that if you do a reinstall of DirX then
all the above need to be re-done

    In F1RS I have all the sliders set as close to the midpoint as
possible.

John Walla

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by John Walla » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:24:21 -0600, "Greg Cisko"


>Two of the more cool visuals are the dust that kicks up when you
>get into gravel, and the brake dust that rises off the wheels when
> you stop. Attention to detail in this sim is astounding. Do D3D
>people see this?

Brake dust rises off the wheels? Why would brake dust be coming off
the wheels, and it was, why would it be rising up? Tyre smoke caused
by braking I can follow, but the brake dust angle I've never seen (the
stuff that flies out of Alesi's brakes whenever he has a tyre change).

Cheers!
John

John Walla

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by John Walla » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:30:13 -0600, "Greg Cisko"


>I really like the Psygnosis sound. I especially liked the reverbration
>in the tunnel at monaco.

I liked the way Murray Walker reverberated in the tunnel as well :-)

Cheers!
John

Randy Magrud

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Randy Magrud » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00


>I really like the Psygnosis sound. I especially liked the reverbration
>in the tunnel at monaco. Too bad the rest of the game was horrid.

Which one are you talking about?  If you're talking about the PC
version, you're not talking about the same one I am.  I am talking
about F1:Championship edition , (The sequel to Formula One) which I
think is a really good F1 sim, and is ONLY avaialble on the
Playstation.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Randy Magrud

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Randy Magrud » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00


>I just checked mine. The steering, accelerator & brake are all at 80%.

I.e. the defaults.

Hm, what is the Yes | No at the bottom of the sensitivity screen, and
what does the "Track Exit" option mean?

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Denni

Expanded F1RS section on Eagle Woman's Racing Sims site

by Denni » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00


>On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:24:21 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>>Two of the more cool visuals are the dust that kicks up when you
>>get into gravel, and the brake dust that rises off the wheels when
>> you stop. Attention to detail in this sim is astounding. Do D3D
>>people see this?

>Brake dust rises off the wheels? Why would brake dust be coming off
>the wheels, and it was, why would it be rising up? Tyre smoke caused
>by braking I can follow, but the brake dust angle I've never seen (the
>stuff that flies out of Alesi's brakes whenever he has a tyre change).

>Cheers!
>John

Did you watch any formula one races last year? I guess not. Well, brake dust
comes off the brake pads and the brake pads are located in the wheels.
Therefore, the brake dust comes out of the wheels. It can go up because it
is very light (like other dust) and gets caught by air turbulence. There
were some classic shots of brake dust coming out the wheels at Melbourne
last year.

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