rec.autos.simulators

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

Byron Forbe

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Byron Forbe » Mon, 26 Jul 2004 22:10:51


    Yep, I find it laughable that these upmarket wheels don't do FF. The "FF
technology isn't up to par" line is a load of ***imo. Papy (RIP) said that
for a while and then started doing it about 5 years ago! Joke.

Byron Forbe

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Byron Forbe » Mon, 26 Jul 2004 22:13:35


    A1's stink! :) (See elsewhere in this thread) Mine did anyway, maybe one
of their first editions. Luke McLean uses one though so................

Michael Grand

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Michael Grand » Mon, 26 Jul 2004 22:31:32

Not sure what you mean by ECCI being new but ECCI has been around for over a
decade. I have used an ECCI system for about that amount of time. I've had 4
different ECCI systems over that period of time and have never had to
replace the pots because they were bad or worn out. I won a couple races
with them too.




> > I had been racing with a TM Nascar Pro analog up until April of this
> > year.  My on-track performance was (IMHO) mediocre at best.  I bought an
> > ECCI wheel and I've won three league races in four months, and when I
> > didn't win, I was in the top 5. What's more, I stopped using driving
> > aids (I was using steering assistance set to about 15%), and I started
> > driving in the***pit again.  The only thing that's changed is my
> > wheel/pedals.

>     A lot of this may be due to the ECCI simply being new. I have used a
> $400 (purchased in 1998) wheel up until recently. Now I use a black MOMO
> ($165). The accuracy thru the pedals of the MOMO was immediately obvious
> compared to the old A1 pedals. The A1 (local aussie product) is extremely
> sturdy in construction. However, it used 1 MegaOhm pots moving thru just
10%
> of their arc and with the pedals being heavily sprung and thus notchy in
> their operation, the precision of these pedals is comparitively pathetic.

John Simmon

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by John Simmon » Mon, 26 Jul 2004 23:39:18



I think he meant new in relation to my using one.  

I think my driving has improved because the ECCI is better than what I
was using before.  I'm not sayng that anything lower priced would not
have resulted in a simular increase in apparent driving ability, but I
am saying that I think moving to better equipment is a benefit.  I have
been able to make my setups a little looser and am now able to keep up
with the guys that are driving fast. The end result (so far) is that I
am in the lead in the series I'm racing in right now, and I owe it all
to the ECCI controller.

I agree with Wilshe that using better equipment is a "good thing"(tm),
but getting the most expensive controllers available simply isn't an
option for most people, and generally, it won't guarantee that you'll
instantly be impossible to beat, or even improve in terms of driving
skill.

Everyone's different, so blanket statements like "you need to buy the
most expensive", or "you'll be faster with a joystick" is just plain
buillshit.

Don Wilsh

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Don Wilsh » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 03:00:35

Kids Mike.. hehe

dw

you ole fart


> Not sure what you mean by ECCI being new but ECCI has been around for over
a
> decade. I have used an ECCI system for about that amount of time. I've had
4
> different ECCI systems over that period of time and have never had to
> replace the pots because they were bad or worn out. I won a couple races
> with them too.





> > > I had been racing with a TM Nascar Pro analog up until April of this
> > > year.  My on-track performance was (IMHO) mediocre at best.  I bought
an
> > > ECCI wheel and I've won three league races in four months, and when I
> > > didn't win, I was in the top 5. What's more, I stopped using driving
> > > aids (I was using steering assistance set to about 15%), and I started
> > > driving in the***pit again.  The only thing that's changed is my
> > > wheel/pedals.

> >     A lot of this may be due to the ECCI simply being new. I have used a
> > $400 (purchased in 1998) wheel up until recently. Now I use a black MOMO
> > ($165). The accuracy thru the pedals of the MOMO was immediately obvious
> > compared to the old A1 pedals. The A1 (local aussie product) is
extremely
> > sturdy in construction. However, it used 1 MegaOhm pots moving thru just
> 10%
> > of their arc and with the pedals being heavily sprung and thus notchy in
> > their operation, the precision of these pedals is comparitively
pathetic.

Ken MacKa

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Ken MacKa » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:22:04


> Ken:

> Im not selling any gear.  I would say the same about any high end product.
> ECCI, TSW, ETC. all
> make ELITE driving systems.  I have owned over 20 wheels and its all great.

Ok then, how about checking out the range and precision of the ones you still own...

Ken

Don Wilsh

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Don Wilsh » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:33:02

The cheap wheels have no range. the ECCI i own is a HIGH RES USB and has
1024 resolution for
steering calibration..

dw

All the wheels i had i gave to poor sim drivers.



> > Ken:

> > Im not selling any gear.  I would say the same about any high end
product.
> > ECCI, TSW, ETC. all
> > make ELITE driving systems.  I have owned over 20 wheels and its all
great.

> Ok then, how about checking out the range and precision of the ones you
still own...

> Ken

Schoone

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Schoone » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:38:24

"The cheap wheels have no range."
Ahh yes, blanket statements, the best kind.

"All them other stuff sucks, mines is better."


> The cheap wheels have no range. the ECCI i own is a HIGH RES USB and has
> 1024 resolution for
> steering calibration..

> dw

> All the wheels i had i gave to poor sim drivers.




> > > Ken:

> > > Im not selling any gear.  I would say the same about any high end
> product.
> > > ECCI, TSW, ETC. all
> > > make ELITE driving systems.  I have owned over 20 wheels and its all
> great.

> > Ok then, how about checking out the range and precision of the ones you
> still own...

> > Ken

Ken MacKa

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Ken MacKa » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 20:54:38


> The cheap wheels have no range. the ECCI i own is a HIGH RES USB and has
> 1024 resolution for
> steering calibration..

> dw

Thanks for the info Don.

You make it sound as though the 1024 points of resolution is an option. So what
does the ECCI with "normal" USB give for resolution? Don't tell me people are
paying for "high-end" wheels that have less than 1024 points of resolution?!

So the Act labs force RS with a serial cart or the older USB cart is a high end
wheel as both have 1024 resolution?  And correct me if I'm wrong but don't the
Momo wheels, the MSFF, and old LWFF wheels also have the same resolution? I must
say I'm a bit disappointed as my old homebuilt wheel gives just over 2000 points
of resolution on the gameport.  Guess I'll have to wait to become a "serious
racer" when the ULTRA HI RES USB is available. ;-)

Ken

Remco Moe

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Remco Moe » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:14:28



That isn't that hard, even with a 7 bit controller.....the question
is, is that 1024 resolution with steps of 1, or more? Is the ECCI
USB controller a 10 bit one? And the last question, is the ECCI
still using analog potentie meters, or is the sensor digital?

Cheers!

Remco

Don Wilsh

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Don Wilsh » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:49:33

good info.. stock ECCI on my system was 64.. could be the operating system
as well determines this
dw



> > The cheap wheels have no range. the ECCI i own is a HIGH RES USB and has
> > 1024 resolution for
> > steering calibration..

> > dw

> Thanks for the info Don.

> You make it sound as though the 1024 points of resolution is an option. So
what
> does the ECCI with "normal" USB give for resolution? Don't tell me people
are
> paying for "high-end" wheels that have less than 1024 points of
resolution?!

> So the Act labs force RS with a serial cart or the older USB cart is a
high end
> wheel as both have 1024 resolution?  And correct me if I'm wrong but don't
the
> Momo wheels, the MSFF, and old LWFF wheels also have the same resolution?
I must
> say I'm a bit disappointed as my old homebuilt wheel gives just over 2000
points
> of resolution on the gameport.  Guess I'll have to wait to become a
"serious
> racer" when the ULTRA HI RES USB is available. ;-)

> Ken

alex

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by alex » Thu, 29 Jul 2004 10:01:43




>> The cheap wheels have no range. the ECCI i own is a HIGH RES USB and
>> has 1024 resolution for
>> steering calibration..

>> dw

> Thanks for the info Don.

> You make it sound as though the 1024 points of resolution is an option.
> So what does the ECCI with "normal" USB give for resolution? Don't tell
> me people are paying for "high-end" wheels that have less than 1024
> points of resolution?!

> So the Act labs force RS with a serial cart or the older USB cart is a
> high end wheel as both have 1024 resolution?  And correct me if I'm
> wrong but don't the Momo wheels, the MSFF, and old LWFF wheels also
> have the same resolution? I must say I'm a bit disappointed as my old
> homebuilt wheel gives just over 2000 points of resolution on the
> gameport.  Guess I'll have to wait to become a "serious racer" when the
> ULTRA HI RES USB is available. ;-)

> Ken

I can confirm that MSFF and Thrustmaster Ferrari FF both give 1024 steering
resolution. But the real precision is much more than the resolution. It
requires wheel mechanism to operate precisely passing the movement of the
steering wheel itself to the sensors/pots and for them to translate it
accurately into a signal. More than that, all this high precision will be
lost if the wheel is not attached rigidly to the dest (and if the desk is
not rigidly attached to the seat/chair). For the better attachment of the
driver to the seat the driver should probably wear seat belts ;)

Alex.

Ken MacKa

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Ken MacKa » Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:38:04


> I can confirm that MSFF and Thrustmaster Ferrari FF both give 1024 steering
> resolution.

Kind of makes you wonder what the 20 wheels were that Don gave away that didn't
include a MSFF, Thustmaster Ferrari, ForceRS, LWFF or a Momo.  ;-)

Agreed, no point having 1024 point output if there is a lot of play in the
mechanism.  That said, it'd have to be fairly bad before it would start to
affect driving performance, IMHO. It would however make a big difference in the
feel. For example both the ForceRS and my homebuilt wheel have a direct
connection of the pot to the steering shaft... move either wheel a small
fraction of a degree back and forth and it registers on the screen. It is just
as easy to hit an apex with either wheel and lap times are about the same.
However I prefer to use the homebuilt one because it has a more solid feel (wood
and steel vs plastic housing), and there is less play (bearings versus a plastic
bushing on the steering shaft).  I have no doubt that an ECCI wheel would feel
nicer and last longer that one of the wheels mentioned above.  What I wanted to
point out is that some consumer grade wheels can offer good enough precision
(i.e. as good and possibly even better than a high end wheel) for a driver to be
competitive. Goes back to the part of the article that some of us have problems
with... the BS about needing a high end wheel to go fast.

Ken

Michael Grand

Serious racers steer toward high-end equipment

by Michael Grand » Fri, 30 Jul 2004 04:01:37

Theres no doubt that any of those wheels can be competative in the right
hands. I think the difference is best compared to a choice between a
Volkswagon and a Ferrari. Some would rather spend the money and drive the
best. Nothing wrong with a Volkswagon, it will get you where you want to go
most of the time.



> > I can confirm that MSFF and Thrustmaster Ferrari FF both give 1024
steering
> > resolution.

> Kind of makes you wonder what the 20 wheels were that Don gave away that
didn't
> include a MSFF, Thustmaster Ferrari, ForceRS, LWFF or a Momo.  ;-)

> > But the real precision is much more than the resolution. It
> > requires wheel mechanism to operate precisely passing the movement of
the
> > steering wheel itself to the sensors/pots and for them to translate it
> > accurately into a signal. More than that, all this high precision will
be
> > lost if the wheel is not attached rigidly to the dest (and if the desk
is
> > not rigidly attached to the seat/chair).

> Agreed, no point having 1024 point output if there is a lot of play in the
> mechanism.  That said, it'd have to be fairly bad before it would start to
> affect driving performance, IMHO. It would however make a big difference
in the
> feel. For example both the ForceRS and my homebuilt wheel have a direct
> connection of the pot to the steering shaft... move either wheel a small
> fraction of a degree back and forth and it registers on the screen. It is
just
> as easy to hit an apex with either wheel and lap times are about the same.
> However I prefer to use the homebuilt one because it has a more solid feel
(wood
> and steel vs plastic housing), and there is less play (bearings versus a
plastic
> bushing on the steering shaft).  I have no doubt that an ECCI wheel would
feel
> nicer and last longer that one of the wheels mentioned above.  What I
wanted to
> point out is that some consumer grade wheels can offer good enough
precision
> (i.e. as good and possibly even better than a high end wheel) for a driver
to be
> competitive. Goes back to the part of the article that some of us have
problems
> with... the BS about needing a high end wheel to go fast.

> Ken


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