rec.autos.simulators

GPL lap time thresholds

Kev

GPL lap time thresholds

by Kev » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I spent most of this weekend in the training mode of GPL trying to
improve my setups (something I'd never really done intensively before as
Alison Hines' and some I got by 'AT' were good enough for starters) and
it helps a great deal but I'd like to know what the generally accepted
thresholds are for good laps at each track.

e.g. Monza sub 1.30 is considered to be a barrier that a lot of people
struggle for ages to break. (I finally did it after 4 months of
trying!). Under 9mins for Nurbergring, 1.07 at the Glen......

Sub 1.30 at Silverstone is my current bugbear :(

Kev

Gregor Vebl

GPL lap time thresholds

by Gregor Vebl » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> I spent most of this weekend in the training mode of GPL trying to
> improve my setups (something I'd never really done intensively before as
> Alison Hines' and some I got by 'AT' were good enough for starters) and
> it helps a great deal but I'd like to know what the generally accepted
> thresholds are for good laps at each track.

> e.g. Monza sub 1.30 is considered to be a barrier that a lot of people
> struggle for ages to break. (I finally did it after 4 months of
> trying!). Under 9mins for Nurbergring, 1.07 at the Glen......

> Sub 1.30 at Silverstone is my current bugbear :(

> Kev

Kev,

I advise you to not go down this way. First of all, don't tinker with
the setups too much, they really do not make this much difference unless
you are going for the very hottest times. Do it so that it suits your
driving style, as this is mostly what I found them to be about, so that
you do not have too much over/understeer. You will only loose valuable
time better spent learning to drive faster if you strive for even tyre
temperatures. Just use some plausible camber (I typically use something
around 1.0 on fronts and 0.5 negative camber on rears on my Ferrari).

If you run between 1:30 to 1:32 in Monza for laps without ever spinning
out, this is more than enough to be competitive online, in fact you can
win a couple of races that way if you are lucky. I know many people are
saying that, but it is really true.

My driving style is such that may hotlaps are only marginally better
(say, 0.5 to 1 seconds) than race times, and I find the greatest
satisfaction in online races. They are far more gratifying than spending
a weekend trying to top that rather meaningless barrier, even if you
finish midfield. They also require skills that are far more complex than
just putting in fast laps.

Greetings,

Gregor

Michael E. Carve

GPL lap time thresholds

by Michael E. Carve » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00


% I advise you to not go down this way. First of all, don't tinker with
% the setups too much, they really do not make this much difference unless
% you are going for the very hottest times. Do it so that it suits your
% driving style, as this is mostly what I found them to be about, so that
% you do not have too much over/understeer. You will only loose valuable
% time better spent learning to drive faster if you strive for even tyre
% temperatures. Just use some plausible camber (I typically use something
% around 1.0 on fronts and 0.5 negative camber on rears on my Ferrari).

I am not so sure this is good advice (as it stands).  While it is more
important to learn to drive than spend all day in the garage, once one
gets the handle on a track, the only real way to start improving time is
to set the car up properly.  With that said, one can't set the car up
properly until they can lap a course consistently.  Learning to setup a
car is very similar to learning how to drive GPL..... Trial and error
and lots of time.....  Anyway there is nothing as frustrating as not
being able to improve one's driving, no matter how much time one puts in
when the setup doesn't work right.  A sweet setup can make all the
difference in the performance on the track.  

For starters I would concentrate alot on even tire temps.  Without them
one will find in next to impossible to drive consistent laps.  The feel
of the car will continue to change as the tire temps get further and
further out of alignment.  Not only that, one is no longer getting
maximum grip with the tires.

First step is tire temps and tire pressure.....  set camber and pressure
to get even tire temps across the tire.....   Run alot of laps.... get
the feel of the car setup....

Now look for problem areas....

Tight entering turns?  Try adjusting shocks (decrease front or stiffen
rear).....  Go back out and run alot of laps..... check tire temps and
make any mods that are necessary and go back out and run alot of
laps....

Tight in the middle of turns?  Try more ARB in front or less in the
rear.... go back out and run alot of laps..... check tire temps, etc.

Car suddenly making sharp turns or veering off course?  Raise ride
height or stiffen springs as the car is hitting the bump stops.  Go back
out and run alot of laps...... check tire temps...... etc.

The important thing to remember (and it's really hard to do) is only
change one thing at a time.  Test it out, check the results on tire
temps.  Don't go changing shocks, tire temps, gearing, ARB, camber all
in one garage session.  Oh, yeh, and keeping notes won't hurt either.

You first goal is to find a setup that is stable and controllable all
the way around the track.  Doesn't have to be fast yet, just stable and
controllable (the latter is the most important).  Now, go out and work
on learning how to drive this setup fast (consistently and in control).
As you get used to the setup you should find that your times are
improving as you learn how to attack the course.  However, as you begin
to push the setup past its limits, it is more than likely time to go
back to the garage and check tire temps and then start the process all
over again.  Because it is highly likely that you have now out-grown
your setup.

% If you run between 1:30 to 1:32 in Monza for laps without ever spinning
% out, this is more than enough to be competitive online, in fact you can
% win a couple of races that way if you are lucky. I know many people are
% saying that, but it is really true.

There are 2 different kinds of competitive.....  Finishing well (though
running slow) because everyone else wrecked or went off course.  And
then there is being competitive with a stable setup that allows one to
run with other consistent drivers on the track.  Keeping with them (and
hopefully passing them) for lap after lap, or holding someone off as
they attempt to pass you.  

The first kind of competitive will become rather hollow after awhile.
The second will only push one to become a better driver.  And to achieve
the second one, one needs a good stable and controllable setup.  A setup
that is quick, but allows for consistent laps.

% My driving style is such that may hotlaps are only marginally better
% (say, 0.5 to 1 seconds) than race times, and I find the greatest
% satisfaction in online races. They are far more gratifying than spending
% a weekend trying to top that rather meaningless barrier, even if you
% finish midfield. They also require skills that are far more complex than
% just putting in fast laps.

Agree!  But in my book setups are a very important factor in achieving
this.  It's really hard to learn to drive consistently and in a
controlled fashion if the setup doesn't suit this goal.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Kev

GPL lap time thresholds

by Kev » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00




<lots of good advice snipped to save space>

Thanks for the helps guys.

I'm not hotlapping by any means, just trying to get into the 'groove' of
consistent fast times.

I find that the setups I've downloaded are good starters but my driving
style means that they understeer a bit more than I like. I started off
by just softening the front roll bar a bit but now I've got used to the
handling a bit more I've just been investigating what else helps to get
the front gripping more.

Michael, it's interesting what you say about tyre temps but as I only do
the short novice races I'm not sure that applies at the moment but I'll
certainly keep it in check from now on.

You also say
'Car suddenly making sharp turns or veering off course?  Raise ride
height or stiffen springs as the car is hitting the bump stops.'
That's quite interesting because I was doing fairly crappy at monza
until I tried a hotlappers setup and the control in curva grande and the
lesmos was miles better than what I had so I merged the two setups using
the ride height, springs and bumpstops (set at 1) and the setting above
or below it (can't remember what it is)  from the hotlapper with the
rest from my adapted AT-Monza setup and it's great. I started dropping
the bumpstops on my other setups and it's really helped. In theory the
car should be more twitchy, yes?

Anyway, it seems to be working at the moment :) I think a month long
stint at F2 seems to have helped a great deal too (fellow struggling
newbies take note).

Thanks

Kev

Mike Barlo

GPL lap time thresholds

by Mike Barlo » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

    On a positive note for the F3's.. Last night the GPVL ran Brand Hatch.
Our newest driver ran in the F2 club for quite some time and mentioned that
running the F3's with us was a whole lot more fun.  I'm not sure if it's
because of the group he was running with or if it was because of the F3
cars.  Either way, try F3's once in a while :)

BTW:  I have yet to see the server replay but I understand that there were
at least 6 of us nose to tail for 4 consecutive laps.  one driver made the
smallest mistake that ended that train.  after everything was sorted many of
us ran in groups of two with myself and another driver running side by side
for at least a half lap.  Again, I'm not sure if it's the group he was
running with or if it was the cars.  The group is among the very best and
I'd lay odds that the cars made us that way :)

Aubre

GPL lap time thresholds

by Aubre » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

This doesn't neccessarily apply to you, but I wonder how many folks have
problems mastering GPL just because they're using really crummy pedals.  The
first wheel I owned was a Thrustmaster Nascar Pro, which had great pedals.
Then much later I got a Saitek FF Wheel, and had a hellacious time getting
used to the pedals in GPL.  I kept locking a wheel, or spinning off.  It
wasn't long before I got frustrated, and tried stuffing a raquet ball
underneath the brake, and a bit of foam *** under the accelerator.  Once
I did that, and after some tinkering and practice, I began to like them more
than the old Thrusty pedals.

So if you think you're not able to modulate brake and throttle as precisely
as you could, you might try a raquet or squash ball, or a bit of foam ***
or something under the pedals to stiffen them up.

-A

Ric

GPL lap time thresholds

by Ric » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00



i beat it recently after 3 weeks of using the lotus with a 129:88.

and i've been playing the game only 1 month altogether.
anyone top that ?

http://come.to/rs-shifter

Jon Anderse

GPL lap time thresholds

by Jon Anderse » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Yes. When racing at WinVroc, you should beware of Geir Persen. I gave him
the game a month ago. He has done 1.28.11. He obviously has a big talent for
racing. In a couple of months, I will probably regret giving the game to
him.

Jon

Karte

GPL lap time thresholds

by Karte » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I did a 1:27.96 after 5 days and I never played the demo. Setups and replays
from the world record holders helped speed up the learning curve tremendously.
Unfortunately 2 months later I'm stuck at 1:27.8.

Schlom

GPL lap time thresholds

by Schlom » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Nope...took me almost 14 months to best 1:30 at Monza.  They were the worst 14
months of my life :)

Chris

Damir Jurisi

GPL lap time thresholds

by Damir Jurisi » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

First started playing 4 days ago (a bit late, I know :) ) and did 1:38 in
Lotus with keyboard and default setup. Quite undriveable combo. I bought
joystick, dl-ed replays and setups from WW and F.Urso and after couple of
hours settled for 1:29.26. I'm still fairly inconsistent though and able to
spin almost every lap but I feel I can do a low/mid 1:28 with some more
practice. Actually, I'm not used to drive with joystick so late braking and
going into a corner with the gentle touch is giving me a hard time.

BTW, how do you guys adjust steering sensitivity?  I went for 100% linear at
first, but I find 50:50 to be more suitable for me, as I still can't get rid
of keyboard-like on/off steering.

Gregor Vebl

GPL lap time thresholds

by Gregor Vebl » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00




> <lots of good advice snipped to save space>

> Thanks for the helps guys.

> I'm not hotlapping by any means, just trying to get into the 'groove' of
> consistent fast times.

> I find that the setups I've downloaded are good starters but my driving
> style means that they understeer a bit more than I like. I started off
> by just softening the front roll bar a bit but now I've got used to the
> handling a bit more I've just been investigating what else helps to get
> the front gripping more.

I had the same problem as you when starting, namely the understeer. Let
me suggest a thing, more than experimenting with the bar, try fiddling
with the diff. This is one part that is given too little attention in
the manual. If the diff angle on throttle off is low (30 in most default
setups), it prevents rear tires to spin at different speeds, so an
overall torque occurs on the car that rotates the car away from the
turn. Experiment with raising this number, try 85/85 at first. I
guarantee you will spin on the entry to your first turn :). For my
Ferrari and my driving style I found that 60/60 with three clutches
works best for most tracks.

Michael is right, and even in short races (say after about 3-4 laps)
your tires may already be overheated.

As long as the suspension doesn't hit bumpstops, it should actually be
far more stable as the springs are acting linearly in this regime.

- Show quoted text -

Chris Cavi

GPL lap time thresholds

by Chris Cavi » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> BTW: I have yet to see the server replay but I understand that
> there were at least 6 of us nose to tail for 4 consecutive laps.
> one driver made the smallest mistake that ended that train. after
> everything was sorted many of us ran in groups of two with myself
> and another driver running side by side for at least a half lap.
> Again, I'm not sure if it's the group he was running with or if
> it was the cars. The group is among the very best and
> I'd lay odds that the cars made us that way :)

Not trying to knock the F3's in any way, but I think it's the group of
drivers you have.  I've run side-by-side for a whole lap at Monza, for
the first third of the lap at Zandvoort, and various other times at
other tracks with good, consistent drivers in F1 cars.  I really think
it's the drivers and not the cars.  I even consider the F3 cars just as
hard to drive on the limit as the F1 cars.  I find myself spinning much
more mid-corner in an F3 car than in an F1 car, and I'm not slow by any
means in an F1 car.

-Chris-
a.k.a. "Dirt"

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Chris Cavi

GPL lap time thresholds

by Chris Cavi » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> This doesn't neccessarily apply to you, but I wonder how many
> folks have problems mastering GPL just because they're using
> really crummy pedals.

[snip]

I agree wholeheartedly.  I improved my times quite a bit after I got
the TSW with the split axis.  I improved my times quite a bit more
after I got dxtweak.exe and reduced all my deadzones to zero percent.
I think you've hit on the one overriding factor that most people seem
to either ignore or not be able to correct (really precise controllers
cost a bundle).  I think a quality controler with 0% deadzones will go
farther to improving any persons times than any other single factor.

-Chris-
a.k.a. "Dirt"

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Chris Cavi

GPL lap time thresholds

by Chris Cavi » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> BTW, how do you guys adjust steering sensitivity? I went for
> 100% linear at first, but I find 50:50 to be more suitable for
> me, as I still can't get rid of keyboard-like on/off steering.

I use a steering wheel, but I use 100% linear with no DX deadzones.

-Chris-

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


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