rec.autos.simulators

by **Paul Jone** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Hey, Michael, I'm not criticising Nascar though I certainly don't understand it.
It just doesn't get tv coverage over here. Indy on the other hand is great and,
apart from the oval races, seems pretty similar to F1.
I understand that many people in North America appreciate F1. There is an F1 GP
in Canada every year, the year after next there will be a US GP, Jaques
Villeneuve was the year before last's World Champion and Alex Zanardi is coming
to F1 next year. All this doesn't speak of a continent completely ignorant of F1
- so I have to retract my previous statement, but I will not accept that F1 is
boring.
Paul

> On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:11:06 +0000, Paul Jones

> >Yes, Nascar may be little understood in the UK, but it's obvious that F1 is
> >little understood in North America.
> Good effort Paul but wrong. While I agree that there are a great many
> arrogant asses out there (your side and mine), there is a strong,
> loyal, and knowlegdable F1 fan presence here in Canada. I have been
> following F1 since 1971...I follow all forms of motorsport (some more
> closely than others)...I have 3 years of SCCA experience, and I devour
> motorsports news on a daily basis (when I can find it). I believe I
> understand F1 better than you think...can you say the same for IndyCar
> and NASCAR?

> Mike

by **John Walla** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:38:15 +0000, Graeme Nash

>>Are you honestly trying to say that there is another country who has
>>athletes who can even remotely compare to the one's in the U.S.?
>Iran did in the World cup......:-)

Heck EVERYONE did in the World Cup.

Cheers!
John

by **Paul Jone** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

This is a troll isn't it, David? The number one sport in the world, bar
none is what we all call football and you call soccer. Ask any boy on
the streets of Lagos, Liverpool, Rome, Sao Paulo, Berlin etc which sport
he would like to be a star at, and nine times out of ten he will say
Football. But you don't play it. How can you field athletes in a whole
range of sports that we don't compete in seriously (including Athletics
<yawn>) and then claim to have the best athletes in the world. Field a
football team that can beat, wait for it, Iran <s***>, and then I'll
consider your claim more seriously. (It irritates me than the North
American Region of football has three entries in the World Cup and one
one football team of merit (Mexico). Pitted against European countries,
the US would rank somewhere below Switzerland and would have little hope
of qualifying for a place in the finals. It's all down to FIFA trying to
get a slice of your tv advertising money and it stinks. The US should
have to compete for World Cup places against the real American teams
like Brazil and Argentina.)
Paul

> Are you honestly trying to say that there is another country who has
> athletes who can even remotely compare to the one's in the U.S.?

> David G Fisher

> >Ahahahahaha, gimme a break.

by **DAVID J ROBINSO** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Most every NASCAR race I watched this year was great. Lots of close racing
and many teams running up front. I will admit that I did not watcha bunch
of them tho. Also in the last few years I have given up on Formula 1 since
as usual there are only a couple teams in the hunt. It may have been
different this year, but they lost me years back.

> Don't know about NASCAR races being close, at least not Winston Cup
> during 1998. Didn't Gordon and Martin win 2/3 of the races between
> them? Throw in Jarrett, and how many others won races. Winston Cup has
> become more like F1 - follow-the-leader, only two teams winning.

by **Duncan R. Mcle** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

>> >Too many cars with too many ads on them driving on too boring ovals
>> >resulting in too little e***ment.

>> You obviously have no idea what your talking about. You call cars
racing 3
>> wide through the turns fighting for the lead boring? Oh, but of
course
>> watching McLaren lap the entire field is much more exciting.
There's nothing
>> boring about ovals.

>In the first place: racing at a 5 km circuit, which has a variety of
slow
>and fast curves is for me much more exciting than just turning left
four
>times a lap.

>In the second place. On a well-built circuit (Which, I admit, are
scarce
>nowadays), it is not only the car's HP that counts, but also a great
deal
>of driver skill. On ovals, HP is much more important

>HP is'nt everything...let me know how well your setup does at say,

108% difficulty...a good place to start to learn the nuances of a 2
ton racing machine. cheers...duncan.

by **Ronald Stoe** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

> Are you honestly trying to say that there is another country who has
> athletes who can even remotely compare to the one's in the U.S.?

> David G Fisher

> >Ahahahahaha, gimme a break.

Check the medal rankings of the last few Olympic games, but it would
just hurt your patriotic feelings, I guess... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

by **Metro6** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

This is getting funnier by the minute....

If the United States used absolutely the best athletes in the country in the
Olympics, [like the rest of the world does] the USA would simply run away with
most all of the medals.

Not saying that the United States Olympic athletes are not the best, but....
Put Mark McGwire, Greg Maddux and Roger Clemens on the baseball team, let Davey
Johnson, Lou Pinella or Joe Torre manage it and see what happens.
Put Michael Jordan, Grant Hill, Scottie Pippin and Kobe Bryant on the
basketball team and let Pat Riley, Rick Pitino or Phil Jackson coach it and see
what happens.
And so on and so on...

That amature athletes in the USA are a fantastic bunch of athletes and they
prepare very hard but, you let the absolute best athletes in the United States,
pros, amatures...anybody, prepare for 4 years for the Olympics, and it would
be ugly for the rest of the world.

by **Todd D** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I actually have to agree with David here (now that's different). The most
interesting thing to me about the World Cup was that if soccer (er, football)
was even a remotely significant sport over here then none of the guys on our
team would even have been on the field. Our best athletes don't play soccer
(er, football). The U.S., by far, has more of the best athletes than any
other country, probably more than all other countries combined. But what does
any of this have to do with the thrill of NECKCAR?

>This is a troll isn't it, David? The number one sport in the world, bar
>none is what we all call football and you call soccer. Ask any boy on
>the streets of Lagos, Liverpool, Rome, Sao Paulo, Berlin etc which sport
>he would like to be a star at, and nine times out of ten he will say
>Football. But you don't play it. How can you field athletes in a whole
>range of sports that we don't compete in seriously (including Athletics
><yawn>) and then claim to have the best athletes in the world. Field a
>football team that can beat, wait for it, Iran <s***>, and then I'll
>consider your claim more seriously. (It irritates me than the North
>American Region of football has three entries in the World Cup and one
>one football team of merit (Mexico). Pitted against European countries,
>the US would rank somewhere below Switzerland and would have little hope
>of qualifying for a place in the finals. It's all down to FIFA trying to
>get a slice of your tv advertising money and it stinks. The US should
>have to compete for World Cup places against the real American teams
>like Brazil and Argentina.)
>Paul

>> Are you honestly trying to say that there is another country who has
>> athletes who can even remotely compare to the one's in the U.S.?

>> David G Fisher

by **David G Fishe** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Remember the Dream Teams?

That's the differnece between the U.S. and the rest.

How about we let our NFL players compete in the Olympics too? Maybe we can
match them up against some rugby teams. :-)

I think this discussion is on the wrong newsgroup. :-o

David G Fisher

>>Check the medal rankings of the last few Olympic games, but it would
>>just hurt your patriotic feelings, I guess... ;^)

>This is getting funnier by the minute....

>If the United States used absolutely the best athletes in the country in
the
>Olympics, [like the rest of the world does] the USA would simply run away
with
>most all of the medals.

by **Graeme Nas** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

How nice of you to give us all a chance!

But what about sports that the rest of the World care about?

You mean you don't have -any- good looking athletes?

Cheers!
--
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

ICQ# 11257824

by **Thomas Enterprise** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

> > If this is true then why are the stands totally full at every single
> > race and every time new seats are added, they are always sold well in
> > advance?

> Now this is a silly argument. The masses are always right? Yepp, Jerry
> Springer definitly agrees with that... ;^)

Ronny you miss the point, obviously if Nascar were somehow less of a
sport than F1 or any other, you would not see it followed worldwide to
the extent that it is. In the US it is the number one motorsport, far
better attended than any open wheel racing venue.

Personally I enjoy watching all forms of racing including boats,
motorcycles, drag racing and anything that competes. My favorite is F1
above all with Nascar a close second.

Trev

by **Han Monsee** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

F1 features a wide variety of circuits, form tight stgreet circuits to
high-speed tracks. Some tracks have sequences of short turns, others have
long and fast corners. My point is that in F1 every circuit is different
and has it's own atmosphere.
On a track it's easier to be a fronbt-runner in an underpowered car than
on an oval.

When I watch F1 and I see Schumacher closing to Hakkinen by half a second
a lap, Im exited, I start calculating whether it's possible for Schu to
catch Mika. When the same happens in a serieslike NASCAR or CART, I only
think "Schu will be at Mika's tail after the next causion".

To me, that Porsche looks like a car with adds on it. Some NASCARs look
to me like an add in the form of a car.

Might be, but to the average public they look the same.

Han

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Who did the Germans blame for not winning the World Cup?
A. Anyone but themselves.

--- BBC's they think it's all over ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Han Monsee** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I think we should drop the NASCAR-discussion because we'll never agree,
but I thibk it's interesting start a more fundamental one:

I think that the corporate money has killed racing (and sports in general)
because the amount of money that is going around is so huge that only the
top teams, who have those amounts of money, are able to run at the top. It
is for newcomers virtually impossible to start in the top-series an to
become succesful.

Let me give some examples (of course from F1 (-:)

In the seventies, anyone who liked it could build a chassis, buy a motor
(Cosworth!) and a gearbox and be succesfull in F1. Teams like Wolf,
Hesketh, Williams, Tyrrell etc proved that money wasn't the most
important those days.

Nowadays, the topteams spend such amounts of money that it took Jordan 7
jears to win it's first GP. Teams such as Stewart, Sauber, Lola, Forti did
never reach real competativity.

The result is that in the 70s and 80s, the F1 grid counted some 40 cars in
some seasons of which 20 had a good chance of beingn the podium.
Nowadays, only 22 cars take part in F1 and only 6 or 7 have recently
visited the podium.

I think that F1 has lost a great deal of it's attractivity due to the
increasing amounts of money that have to be spend in order to be
successful. I think this is true for other series, too.
And for other sports (10 jears ago, KV Mechelen was able to win an
European cup, which will be impossible now.)

Han

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Who did the Germans blame for not winning the World Cup?
A. Anyone but themselves.

--- BBC's they think it's all over ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Although I see your smiley, I would just like to point out that the
*average* football (in the global sense) player has one of the lowest body
fat percentages and highest VO2 max (a measure of aerobic capacity) of any
professional athlete. They also have a phenomenal balance of fast-twitch
and slow-twitch muscles, which means they combine both speed with
endurance. They also play a game which doesn't stop every 5 seconds. The
only athletes with higher aerobic capacity are cross-country skiers (an
area where the US has been sadly lacking since Bill Koch's great
performance in the 70s). The only slimmer athletes are gymnasts. The
average american football player is sadly middle-of-the-road for any
physiological test of "athleticism", and the baseball players... well, we
won't get into those embarassing details.

Again, I saw your smiley. I just wanted to add some data for interest's
sake.
Stephen

by **Metro6** » Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:00:00

That's all that it would be....just a chance.

OK, as one poster said, let guys from the NFL in rugby [if that is an Olympic
sport]. Let Michael Jordan participate in the high jump and so on.

On another front, if we let the absolute *best* athletes in the USA [ the best
athletes in the US don't pole vault, throw the discus etc., they play football,
basketball, baseball, et al and make gazillions of dollars doing it as opposed
to being an Olympic athlete that the rest of the world poses as "amature
athletes"] participate the sports that the rest of theWorld cares about,
there would be absolutely no contest. There would be an outcry to the Olympic
Committee that the competition is unfair, blah, blah, blah...

Yes, Nicole Bobeck <sp>.

rec.autos.simulators

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it

NASCARS : what's the thrill ? I dont get it