rec.autos.simulators

I've come to the conclusion from days of playing that this games is just too
damn hard.  It seems that Papyrus could have at least included some
difficulty settings such as arcade mode to start drivers off with. I'm not a
***driver, currently running 0.58's in the Viper racing demo with no
driver aids and in sim mode. I can do that consistantly for laps and laps.
Don't get me wrong I love playing GPL, but just can do consistant laps
without spinning out. My hardware isn't a limitation, currently running :

P2-300
64Mb
Phoenix Banshee
17" Monitor
Microsoft Force feedback wheel

Getting a pretty constant 40fps in GPL, and 55fps in Viper.

Anyhoo, I appreciate that GPL is supposed to be the MOST realistic sim ever,
but I think they've gone just slightly over the top.

Andy

You don't get 40 fps in GPL as 36 is the limit.

KSB

1) You can choose one of the trainer cars if you think it's too hard, but
if you plan on driving online, you won't be competitive unless you find a
server that only allows the trainer that you are driving.

2) While I've never driven "Viper", I have driven N1, N2, ICR2, and
Monster Truck madness, and I can pretty much assume the next statement I
make is going to be true regarding "Viper" - Ability in one sim does not
guarantee or even imply ability in another sim.

3) If you truly enjoy GPL (as you claim to do), then my advice is to sit
down and seriously concentrate on developing better setups and learning
the tracks.  If you don't know the track layout, you're not going to
perform well.  Before last week, I'd all but written off geting into the
8's at Nurburgring, but with a little practice, and simply learning about
half a dozen landmarks, I've improved my time from 10:15 to 8:42.  Not
bad for a fender-bangin', paint-tradin' redneck.

4) The sim's max FPS at any given moement is 36.

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John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

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IGPS Director
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     This is a tough one.  However, I'm glad the game is as difficult as it is.
 I never did thoroughly enjoy the other racing games because the challenge was
never there.  I mean, you KNEW that at somepoint, you'd win and whup all the
other AI cars to death.
    Now with this game, you have a REAL CHALLENGE.  And I must say I like the
fact that I KNOW I'm not going to win unless give it 110% plus!!  
     But Sierra knew when they designed this game that is was NOT going to be a
massive seller like their NASCAR games.  They knew it would sell in a sort of a
cult niche for people like and a few others who really appreciate racing at
it's utmost.
     Whew....All that said, in a nutshell I don't thing GPL is too hard for
it's own good....on the contrary I think it's perfect!

NanaKofi

As they say, "If it was easy, everybody would be doing it." Hang in there.

dude i run 1:29's 1:30's .....running at only 18 to 22 fps on the monza
track... so it really comes down to some practice, many hours at the tracks ,
but most importantly your car setup's..just keep on practicing ...Rome wasn't
built in 1 day....

I sympathize with your frustrations with GPL, but if you want to 'really' get
the
best out of the 'best' sim on the market at the moment, you have to persevere!
The 'art' of GPL is learning the tracks, being in the correct gear (good set-up)
and probably most important of all..... learning throttle control, you must
learn to steer the cars with a combination of front wheel steerage and rear
wheel throttle control!  It ain't easy, takes lots of practice, but the rewards
once mastered are breath taking....... Papy...... thank you!
Best of luck.....
Dave Hawnt UK  (Lotus 49)

Hi Andy,

When I first drove GPL, I was in the grass a lot too.

Try this (in training mode so no computer cars will interfer with you):

1. Drive the Trainer (not advanced-trainer, just the small one) using
    the Coventry at Watkins Glen. (You can even grab Alison Hine's
    Conventry setups at http://www.racesimcentral.net/
    Cool Stuff link)

2. Drive until you can stay on the track -- consistantly.
    The trick here is to know you have to slow for the corners,
    and you just want more speed in the straights.

3. Move to the Advanced Trainer to get more speed on the straights.

4. Move to the Grand Prix Conventry car and practice some more.

Once you have moved through these 4 steps, you should have the
skills to "feel" how the Coventry reacts and therefore will be able
to drive it consistantly without crashing all the time.

I moved to the Ferrari after these steps and just recently (after 3
months) moved  to the Murasama.

Jason.

--
Jason Monds
theCLAPPER  in Kali
"My other car is a Ferrari"
(Remove 'no spork' when replying)

 The hardness stems from the fact that you cant feel the car's
extremly realistic physics model and only have your visual and audio
senses to race it around the track.This hardness bothered me immensly
and had me wondering if papyrus should of made a sim as advanced as
GPL while lacking the feedback that a real car would give.After awhile
of thinking about it though I came to a very rewarding(IMO)way of
looking at the hardness of GPL.Plain and simply...there are only a
select few people who can race this sim at the hotlap record speeds.In
this way GPL becomes very realistic in that some people suck,some are
mid -runners and some are GPlegends:)))Not every one can become a Jeff
Gordan or even race a car well for that matter.Imagine that when your
playing GPL ,you truly are trying to become a  "professional *virtual*
race car driver" as thats what you will have to become.But when you
start to get a real feel for this sim youll fall in love.Some tips
that have made it easier for me to improve are

Remember that the cars are rear engined and need to take corners on
the power so that the rear doesnt come around on you.

Get top quality equipment.I built my own wheel and installed very very
heavy springs so that its extremely hard to go full lock.I then short
calibrate it 90 degrees each way and the wheel feels so real to me.The
maker of the physics model in GPL states"to master GPL you need to
master the loosening of the wheel".With a *hard* return to center
wheel,I find it easy to power out of turns while I loosen up the wheel
lock.Your brake pedal should only move about an inch and be very hard
when fully depressed because you rarely want to lock your brakes
up,especially if you want to become a professional 67"F1 driver.

Very importantly you need to find a comfort braking zone for each and
every corner as in real race cars.I brake at this spot for most
corners when in a race BUT if I need to pass someone or am qualifying
I go that extra second before I apply the brakes and drive that Ragged
edge:))))In the begining,I would brake at  each and every corner at
the last possible moment that let me survive the turn at a previous
session.If real race car drivers did this(actually the greats of this
sport are actually able to ride this close to the limits lap after
lap)there would be many more accidents,so find that comfort zone and
relax and race safe.

And lastly,learn from your mistakes because getting mad and frustrated
will not let your brain learn from the experience.If you spin,fiqure
out why.If you cant grip the road and slide off,figure out the maximum
speed to take the turn and then find your comfort zone.If you attempt
an out braking manuever only to slide into the car in front of the one
your passing,leanr from it:)))

Have fun
Skeeter

On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:12:15 -0000, "Andy Thilo"

I have an almost identical system, except I have a K6-2 350 and a 15" monitor.
A few days isn't enough time to get consistent with GPL.  It take a couple of
weeks, but hot damn, it's worth it. If you find yourself crashing a lot, just go
slower than you would normally want to, it's impossible to learn tracks if
you're driving on the grass.  Plus turn off the FF on your wheel if you haven't
already, as you can make quicker responses than when it's stiff, GPL doesn't
support FF anyway.

Ian

Well,

 in my experience, the most difficult part of GPL when I was learning it were
braking and accelerating out of corners. During braking, I kept locking up or
spinning, so I adjusted my brake ratio (I ALWAYS use 56-57% on Lotus (I don't
drive any other car :o)) ) and learned how to brake.
There are 2 techniques of braking in GPL, one being ABS-simulations, where you
brake and if you feel your wheels are about to lock up, you start pumping that
pedal :o)
The other one is one of the hardest things to master in GPL (besides mastering
powering out of corners on high clutches :o))  - it's called trail braking -
used & invented (I think) by Mr. Clark
personally. With this technique when doing it right, you brake very late and
whilst braking you start pointing the car into the apex. This makes the rear
light and causes a light oversteer which you can correct with applying some
throttle while braking (sounds hard ? hehe, it IS ! ) to transfer some weight to
the rear and regain the grip - prevent the spin. With this technique you usually
have to set brake ratio more to front. This is also why (besides the starts)
it's good to have peddals on separate axis (so you can brake and apply throttle
stuff) :o)
Another thing are RAMP ANGLES. If you're driving Lotus and still learning GPL,
I'd suggest you either get some other car to get to know the track better or use
85/30 ramp angles and only 1 clutch (u can move up with clutches when you have
mastered this setting, but I doubt you'll get higher then 4 clutches, 3 already
being hard to contron on power). If you still can't control the car under power
then you have an option to increase rear TOE-IN. And if that still doesn't cut
it, then decrease front tyres PSI. Another option is to increase front Anti Roll
Bars (ARB) and decrease rear ARB. But by this time you should have a mother of
all understeering cars :o)) and if you still find it difficult then I'd suggest
you start looking at BRM or something like Advance trainer. If you still find
Advanced trainer and Trainer to hard to control, apply upper tips to their
setups. If that still doesn't help, your only option left is in Win9x > Sierra >
Grand Prix Legends > Uninstall   ;o))

Regards,

Tadej Krevh

: Well,

:  in my experience, the most difficult part of GPL when I was learning it were
: braking and accelerating out of corners. During braking, I kept locking up or
: spinning, so I adjusted my brake ratio (I ALWAYS use 56-57% on Lotus (I don't
: drive any other car :o)) ) and learned how to brake.
: There are 2 techniques of braking in GPL, one being ABS-simulations, where you
: brake and if you feel your wheels are about to lock up, you start pumping that
: pedal :o)
: The other one is one of the hardest things to master in GPL (besides mastering
: powering out of corners on high clutches :o))  - it's called trail braking -
: used & invented (I think) by Mr. Clark

A couple of comments on this:
The preferred method of braking a car like this is called "threshold"
braking.  You want to make the brakes work at 100%.  If your tires lockup,
you are no longer using the stopping power of the brakes. What you want to
do is be right at the edge of adhesion.  GPL simulates this accurately.
What I don't agree with in the above comment is that you should lock and
unlock the brakes to stop.  This is incorrect.  What you want to do is
gradually release pedal pressure until the tires start turning again.
This will drastically increase your stopping power and decrease stopping
distance. A sliding tire produces much much less grip than a fully loaded
brake.  
If you can, go back to your F1 tapes from this year.  Schumacher was doing
this all the time this year.  Watch the Suzuka race especially.

Another side effect of locking-unlocking the brakes is that is can
quickly lead to a state of imbalance under heavy G-load -- always a bad
thing.

Jim Clark didn't invent trail-braking but he used it quite often.  It is
pretty advanced to go into here though.  Check out one of the Skip Barber
tapes on it.  There is one from Lime Rock where they talk extensively
about trail-braking going into T1-T2 and its benefits.  It is pretty good.
I forget the name of the video though.  "Driving -" somthing.

-J.

... Miss Daisy?  ;-D

(I couldn't resist)
--
--------
Jason Monds
"My other car is a Ferrari"
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Tadej merits some attention to what he says. For those that don't know, he's
turned a 1:04.07 at Watkins Glen!

Wow!

OK. You got me.  Keep stomping those brakes, Tadej!  1:07.5 is my best!
Your 1:04 is blistering!

J.