rec.autos.simulators

> Don Burnette

> > Even the people who were huge fans of GPL were surprised at the ff
patch,
> > simply because of what Papy had been saying for months, and specifically
> > because of what that one employee had said very shortly before it's
> release.

> > Others will have to chime in on this.

> > David G Fisher

> > > Who is rewriting history David? We're both going by memories here. You
> > > saying yours is factual and mine is not?

> > > I followed the development of GPL very closely, and have followed all
of
> > > Papy's work very closely as well, for several years. And I simply do
not
> > > recall ever seeing them state the things you are saying they did.

> > > Don Burnette

> > > > Again, they (at least one of the Papy crew) said in a post at
another
> > > forum
> > > > that ff was junk, crap, worthless..........whatever adjective you
want
> > to
> > > > use. Papy supporters said "yea, it isn't, Papy says so!" Then a
little
> > > while
> > > > later (month or two), the ff patch was released.

> > > > Don't re-write history.

> > > > FF technology did not go from not being worth the time to implement
> it,
> > to
> > > > being essential within a year. They simply didn'thave the time to
get
> it
> > > in
> > > > before the release, just like Ubi didn't have time to polish their
ff.

> > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > Papy never said FF was crap, they said they would not implement it
> > UNTIL
> > > > it
> > > > > could be done right, and at that time they had not seen it done
> quite
> > > > right.
> > > > > So they did,

> > > > > Don Burnette

> > > > > > "crap"?? is this a quote? I have never heard Randy Cassidy ever
> talk
> > > > like
> > > > > > this!
> > > > > > TrollOmeter time!! :o)~

> > > > > > | Other racing games/sims had ff before GPL was released. I seem
> to
> > > > > remember
> > > > > > | Papy  saying ff was ***right up until the patch was
released.
> > Very
> > > > > > | strange.
> > > > > > | David G Fisher

> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.racesimcentral.net/).
> > > > > > Version: 6.0.259 / Virus Database: 130 - Release Date: 6/5/2001

> David G Fisher

> > Ok, to the best of my recollection:
> > Yes, folks were suprised when Papy released it so soon, as Papy had been
> > saying they had not seen FF that had been done properly, and would not
do
> so
> > until it could be done,  and they were stating this fairly recently
prior
> to
> > the FF patch for GPL.
> > I believe they also stated they hadn't seen any FF wheels that quite
> > properly modeled FF either.
> > I agree with you, there were several suprised GPLer's when this came
out.
> I
> > just don't believe they referred to FF as ***and said it was not worth
> > doing.
> > This is how I remember it, like you said I am sure others will state
what
> > they recollect as well.

> > Don Burnette

> > > Even the people who were huge fans of GPL were surprised at the ff
> patch,
> > > simply because of what Papy had been saying for months, and
specifically
> > > because of what that one employee had said very shortly before it's
> > release.

> > > Others will have to chime in on this.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > Who is rewriting history David? We're both going by memories here.
You
> > > > saying yours is factual and mine is not?

> > > > I followed the development of GPL very closely, and have followed
all
> of
> > > > Papy's work very closely as well, for several years. And I simply do
> not
> > > > recall ever seeing them state the things you are saying they did.

> > > > Don Burnette

> > > > > Again, they (at least one of the Papy crew) said in a post at
> another
> > > > forum
> > > > > that ff was junk, crap, worthless..........whatever adjective you
> want
> > > to
> > > > > use. Papy supporters said "yea, it isn't, Papy says so!" Then a
> little
> > > > while
> > > > > later (month or two), the ff patch was released.

> > > > > Don't re-write history.

> > > > > FF technology did not go from not being worth the time to
implement
> > it,
> > > to
> > > > > being essential within a year. They simply didn'thave the time to
> get
> > it
> > > > in
> > > > > before the release, just like Ubi didn't have time to polish their
> ff.

> > > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > > Papy never said FF was crap, they said they would not implement
it
> > > UNTIL
> > > > > it
> > > > > > could be done right, and at that time they had not seen it done
> > quite
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > So they did,

> > > > > > Don Burnette

> > > > > > > "crap"?? is this a quote? I have never heard Randy Cassidy
ever
> > talk
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > this!
> > > > > > > TrollOmeter time!! :o)~

> > > > > > > | Other racing games/sims had ff before GPL was released. I
seem
> > to
> > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > | Papy  saying ff was ***right up until the patch was
> released.
> > > Very
> > > > > > > | strange.
> > > > > > > | David G Fisher

> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.racesimcentral.net/).
> > > > > > > Version: 6.0.259 / Virus Database: 130 - Release Date:
6/5/2001

> | Nothing like my recall? Don and I actually agree on what Papy was saying
> up
> | until the release of the patch except he, like you, doesn't remember the
> | employee's comments.
> | Found out yet how many people watch an F1 race each week?
> | David G Fisher

> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.259 / Virus Database: 130 - Release Date: 6/5/2001

> You do know that a sim can have a perfect, complex physics model, and
still
> have poor ff?

> The physics model in F1RC is superb btw, but I'm guessing you don't even
own
> the sim. If you haven't bought F1RC and experienced Eau Rouge, and the
> thrill of slashing through Pouhon and Stavelot just perfectly (especially
> the exits as the rear wheels fight for grip as you accelerate and push the
> Ferrari to it's limit), then you are missing out on something very
special.

> David G Fisher

> > > As for FF, all I can say is that it's either buggy (some people say
it's
> > > great), or after working on ALL THOSE OTHER features I listed, they
> didn't
> > > have time to polish the FF. GPL was a bare bones sim in comparison.
All
> > > those other features matter more to me than FF, so I can easily
forgive
> > > that.

> > Or perhaps the sophistication of GPL's physics model actually made it
> possible
> > to implement meaningful feedback.

> > Dave Ewing

> > --
> > *****************************************************
> > David A. Ewing

> > *****************************************************

> You do know that a sim can have a perfect, complex physics model, and
still
> have poor ff?

> The physics model in F1RC is superb btw, but I'm guessing you don't even
own
> the sim. If you haven't bought F1RC and experienced Eau Rouge, and the
> thrill of slashing through Pouhon and Stavelot just perfectly (especially
> the exits as the rear wheels fight for grip as you accelerate and push the
> Ferrari to it's limit), then you are missing out on something very
special.

> David G Fisher

> > > As for FF, all I can say is that it's either buggy (some people say
it's
> > > great), or after working on ALL THOSE OTHER features I listed, they
> didn't
> > > have time to polish the FF. GPL was a bare bones sim in comparison.
All
> > > those other features matter more to me than FF, so I can easily
forgive
> > > that.

> > Or perhaps the sophistication of GPL's physics model actually made it
> possible
> > to implement meaningful feedback.

> > Dave Ewing

> > --
> > *****************************************************
> > David A. Ewing

> > *****************************************************

> You do know that a sim can have a perfect, complex physics model, and
still
> have poor ff?

> The physics model in F1RC is superb btw, but I'm guessing you don't even
own
> the sim. If you haven't bought F1RC and experienced Eau Rouge, and the
> thrill of slashing through Pouhon and Stavelot just perfectly (especially
> the exits as the rear wheels fight for grip as you accelerate and push the
> Ferrari to it's limit), then you are missing out on something very
special.

> David G Fisher

> > > As for FF, all I can say is that it's either buggy (some people say
it's
> > > great), or after working on ALL THOSE OTHER features I listed, they
> didn't
> > > have time to polish the FF. GPL was a bare bones sim in comparison.
All
> > > those other features matter more to me than FF, so I can easily
forgive
> > > that.

> > Or perhaps the sophistication of GPL's physics model actually made it
> possible
> > to implement meaningful feedback.

> > Dave Ewing

> > --
> > *****************************************************
> > David A. Ewing

> > *****************************************************

> You do know that a sim can have a perfect, complex physics model, and
still
> have poor ff?

> The physics model in F1RC is superb btw, but I'm guessing you don't even
own
> the sim. If you haven't bought F1RC and experienced Eau Rouge, and the
> thrill of slashing through Pouhon and Stavelot just perfectly (especially
> the exits as the rear wheels fight for grip as you accelerate and push the
> Ferrari to it's limit), then you are missing out on something very
special.

> David G Fisher

> > > As for FF, all I can say is that it's either buggy (some people say
it's
> > > great), or after working on ALL THOSE OTHER features I listed, they
> didn't
> > > have time to polish the FF. GPL was a bare bones sim in comparison.
All
> > > those other features matter more to me than FF, so I can easily
forgive
> > > that.

> > Or perhaps the sophistication of GPL's physics model actually made it
> possible
> > to implement meaningful feedback.

> > Dave Ewing

> > --
> > *****************************************************
> > David A. Ewing

> > *****************************************************

> Alex

> > So why did it take a year after the release of GPL for the ff patch to
> > emerge?

> > You do know that a sim can have a perfect, complex physics model, and
> still
> > have poor ff?

> > The physics model in F1RC is superb btw, but I'm guessing you don't even
> own
> > the sim. If you haven't bought F1RC and experienced Eau Rouge, and the
> > thrill of slashing through Pouhon and Stavelot just perfectly
(especially
> > the exits as the rear wheels fight for grip as you accelerate and push
the
> > Ferrari to it's limit), then you are missing out on something very
> special.

> > David G Fisher

> > > > As for FF, all I can say is that it's either buggy (some people say
> it's
> > > > great), or after working on ALL THOSE OTHER features I listed, they
> > didn't
> > > > have time to polish the FF. GPL was a bare bones sim in comparison.
> All
> > > > those other features matter more to me than FF, so I can easily
> forgive
> > > > that.

> > > Or perhaps the sophistication of GPL's physics model actually made it
> > possible
> > > to implement meaningful feedback.

> > > Dave Ewing

> > > --
> > > *****************************************************
> > > David A. Ewing

> > > *****************************************************

> > I don't think I've called their tech support since POD four years ago,
so
> I
> > don't really know how they are now.

> > I'll send the .exe now.

> > David G Fisher

> Got it and it works!  At least the condition creating the crash.log seems
to
> be cured, which means I can actually get on a track.  :-)  I've sent you
an
> email with some details and a request.

> Thanks!

> Jerry Morelock

> Don Burnette

> > I am a fan of F1RC I believe it is the best modern f1 sim and very
> > underrated but I don't believe it's physics model is a patch on GPL. The
> FF
> > in GPL is so good because GPL actually models caster and the FF is
linked
> to
> > it, a good example of this is if you drive backwards in GPL with a FF
> wheel
> > and let go of the wheel the car will sway from side to side that to me
is
> > very impressive, I doubt F1RC physics engine has that level of depth.

> > Alex

> > > So why did it take a year after the release of GPL for the ff patch to
> > > emerge?

> > > You do know that a sim can have a perfect, complex physics model, and
> > still
> > > have poor ff?

> > > The physics model in F1RC is superb btw, but I'm guessing you don't
even
> > own
> > > the sim. If you haven't bought F1RC and experienced Eau Rouge, and the
> > > thrill of slashing through Pouhon and Stavelot just perfectly
> (especially
> > > the exits as the rear wheels fight for grip as you accelerate and push
> the
> > > Ferrari to it's limit), then you are missing out on something very
> > special.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > > As for FF, all I can say is that it's either buggy (some people
say
> > it's
> > > > > great), or after working on ALL THOSE OTHER features I listed,
they
> > > didn't
> > > > > have time to polish the FF. GPL was a bare bones sim in
comparison.
> > All
> > > > > those other features matter more to me than FF, so I can easily
> > forgive
> > > > > that.

> > > > Or perhaps the sophistication of GPL's physics model actually made
it
> > > possible
> > > > to implement meaningful feedback.

> > > > Dave Ewing

> > > > --
> > > > *****************************************************
> > > > David A. Ewing

> > > > *****************************************************