rec.autos.simulators

While you race yourself, you will of course improve, and the "record
driver" feature could be on during these races, so you can later
choose to race the better version of yourself.

You could also save your AI data, so another driver could race against
your AI, or race against a lot of other drivers AI at the same time.

It would probably be great practice to prepare you for online racing.

Watch a race at Mexico (GPL) from one of the fastest guys on the net
and then watch the AI in GPL. You realize the AI have no clue on which
racing line is the fastest :o). The AI in GPL doesn't drive like Jim
Clark did either, but the fastest drivers on the net do :o).

/Christer
--
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times,
cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

You're exactly right on all points of your post!  A great idea!  Perhaps a tiny
plus and minus spread of these clone drivers so you'll always have someone to
chase.  One of my most satisfying encounters in single-player  GPL was at
Silverstone in a Coventry tarted up as a McLaren.  I was attempting to pass a
Ferrari whose AI driver's performance just happened to equal mine in that
moment in *** time.  Four laps I struggled, catching up, balked at overtaking
by lack of talent and AI wiles.  Gears  and speed dead even when a tiny error
would drop me back a half-second.  Finally after pulling off a series of
absolutely perfect lines through three corners I was able to position myself
for an overtake on the inside of my favorite corner, Woodcote.  The point?  By
measuring myself against an equal foe, I was able to apply desire and learning
to improve my performance, something that is more difficult against  Arbitrary
Intelligence that drives 2-3 seconds a lap better than me.  BTW, isn't there a
line of code in GPL titled "Magic Traction"?  Must be the AI using it because
I'm looking _any traction_!

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

I have seen some footage of the races of the era, and I must say I was
astounded how neutrally they drove! They did errors, yes, and then they
sometimes had to use opposite lock and the rear end out, but when they
drove the curves perfectly, their cars had no oversteer, no understeer,
and it went from one state to another perfectly smooth and with gigantic
suspension movement.

We're all intrigued by the way they races back in -67, but I suspect the
picture of the GP driver going at 100 mph sliding on all fours was the
exception rather than the rule.

And finally, that is why I don't think the fastest drivers on the net
don't drive like Jim Clark, he hadn't his car's rear*** out all the
time...

In GPL we can do four wheel slides all over the place, and this isn't
right, we really shouldn't be able to do that without the kind of input
the real thing has, to do high speed sliding manouvres like this you
really need all the input you can get, and IMHO, this should be very
difficult using your eyes and ears only.

That must be down to the fact that a F1 car of -67 was terrifyingly
difficult to drive, and that Papy has done all kinds of adjustment to the
physics in order for us to race them with any consistency at all.

And, that is why I find the F3 class better suited to online racing.

Otherwise, the learning AI is a good idea, Christer. The next step must be
to simulate the neural network of the racing brain that decides how a
driver approach racing decisions. Sometimes they judge it right, sometimes
they don't...

---Asgeir---

: I don't know about you, but I find it incredibly difficult to get a
: consistent 4-wheel drift on all corners, and I suspect that getting a
: noticeable amount of slide isn't the fastest way round the corner
: anyway.

  Well, I suspect it isn't in real life - but it seems that it _is_
in GPL.

: On the other hand you do need to use the throttle and brake to get the
: weight on the correct wheels when making the turn, which results in a
: very small 4-wheel drift - I suspect that this is actually very
: realistic (I don't know as I've never driven a '67 GP car), but you
: probably can't see this happening when watching a race anyway.

  Surely you'd be able to spot a 4 wheel drift unless it was incredibly
miniscule in which case it wouldn't have much significance.

: I can't see how the real cars could have been any harder to drive than
: the sim - otherwise even less of the drivers would have made it through
: the season alive.

  I would strongly suspect that the real cars were easier to drive than
the sim.

--
Richard G. Clegg     Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Believe me - it would be surprising how much more cautiously and
correctly you would drive in GPL if the threat of "Shift-R" were
replaced by the threat of death or crippling injury.

Cheers!
John

Considering that driving the real cars can result in a serious case of
death, I'm not surprised the drivers didn't go in for a lot of 4-wheel
slides!

On the other hand you do need to use the throttle and brake to get the
weight on the correct wheels when making the turn, which results in a
very small 4-wheel drift - I suspect that this is actually very
realistic (I don't know as I've never driven a '67 GP car), but you
probably can't see this happening when watching a race anyway.

I can't see how the real cars could have been any harder to drive than
the sim - otherwise even less of the drivers would have made it through
the season alive.

Since then I've "died" several hundred times, so on balance I'll take
Shift-R please!

/Christer

I have Viper Racing and to my recollection I cant remember there being
a function where I can race several AI that behave like I do.

My idea is that you race the AI as you normally do in an offline race,
but the AI will drive like you do. Your racing line, your braking
points, your braking distance, your turn-in points, your corner
speeds, your apexes, your acceleration, your top speeds.

You should also be able to download other drivers behaviour from the
net and race against them. Imagine racing AI driving like Ian Lake,
Wolfgang W?ger, etc..

It could even be fun to do some offline racing leagues where all the
drivers share their behaviour just before the race day, then you race
against the other drivers in your offline race.

/Christer

Right, you can see they did sideways turning, but I think that was when
they didn't get the entry speed 100 % right... They certainly did NOT
use it as the fastest way to turn...

I think that the fact that we don't have to face the fear of dying means
a lot, but I'm not sure this single fact make out the difference in
driving style you can see between the GPL hot-hotlappers and the F1 of
1967... ;-)

---Asgeir---

/Christer