rec.autos.simulators

He probably passed the pace car BEFORE he actually got on pit road.  
If you do that (at any track) you'll get a bf.  You'll also get one
if you pass another car on your way to pitroad and then enter pitroad
before that car passes you back.

About BF on pit entry, see my previous post.

I think you're making the same mistake others make when they talk
about realism.  This is just a game (regardless of some folks wanting
to call it a sim). Concessions simply have to be made in the name of
playability or (more often) the schedule.  I believe that the pit
entry rule is a change from last year, as even the drivers were
confused (Jeff Gordon blew a green-flag pit entry at least once).  If
you ask me, that new rule gives the guys pitting on the front stretch
an unfair advantage since they don't have to travel the entire
pitroad to get in and then out.  I prefer the way the game does it.

I just watched an offline race that I ran on Friday nite, and I
passed the pace car while on pit road, and did not get a black flag.  
I suspect that you actually passed the pace car just before you
actually crossed the line onto pit road.  

Granted, this is still a bit bogus, but it's a known limitation of
the game.  The passing rule also applies to other race cars and pit
entry. You can't pass someone (on your way to pit road) that is not
pitting.

As for not seeing the pace car and getting a BF I recommend using the
realtime F2 view.

Regards,

Mark Davison
OVAL Deputy Admin
Car #69
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

I checked the replay for Saturdays race ...

    John is right, you passed the pace car, right before you were actually on pit row, a clear violation since you are not, at that
point, limited to pit row speed, and you could've re entered the track.
    You only did 4 15.8s the whole race and the fastest was an .845.  All of them were right after putting on fresh tires.
    Your only did one before lap 175 and that was on L. 128.  Every stop you made after your one around lap 85 did not fill up the
tank; remembering a full tank is 186 laps so after that stop around L85 you were never again running with a full tank.  To make
sure, I tested that setup w/18 gallons and feash tires, and ran 3-4 15.8s and a few 9s and went right into the 16s, just like you
did.
    The 3 mid 8's you did with about 25 to go, on fresh tires, were followed by about 4-5 high 9s, then you went right into the 16s,
like the rest of us.

    I'll agree there are bugs in the game but I seriously doubt loading 'faster' setups in a fixed setup race is one of them.

    To be honest Pete, you can call me delusional all you like, but this is by far the best sim, the best version, we've ever had.
I have taken my share of pot shots (no pun intended) at Papyrus but quite frankly, I think it is an awesome sim, with more features
than we've ever had.  If you think back to what N1 really was, and what we have now, how could anyone be anything but satisfied?

    At some point you either accept and enjoy what's out there, or start sounding like Michael Moorer; sooner or later, no one will
pay any attention to what you say :)

:)

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

sounding like Michael Moorer; sooner or later, no one will

Its the papyrus pacifist that never made Papyrus accountable that have
attributed to this game.  Love the game and I play it
often.  Yes you have to enjoy what you got as Papyrus has never be
influenced by the consumers.   A Simulation deals with
reality, Never has a Papyrus product be close to that.  A Game is a Game.

Thank God for the people like Pete that want to make it better.    Tim I
have always enjoyed your
comments and your usually spot on!  Maybe your just smart enough not to say
anything and be
happier, hehe!

DW

ECCI, with the original pots, and I've not seen any changes

    You know it amazes me that you selectively read what I post. There is a
timing issue in ALL Papyrus versions. I have
half a dozen wheels including an ECCI and I see a difference between all the
wheels. I will only tell you once more we
went through this in BETA testing for the original Nascar game. I can't help
it if my dealing directly with Papyrus coders
at the time is not reliable enough for you.
    The fact you haven't seen any changes is because there haven't been any,
the timimg issue has been there all along.
Now if I recall and I could be wrong you run windows 98 I have been running
XP since it came out. Perhaps you should
talk with the ECCI and TSW people(I have) and there is an issue with XP and
certain pots. But then again I suppose you
know more than they do.
    I will also take some solice in the fact many people have emailed me to
tell me they have seen a big improvement in
the way the game drives by changing pots. That fact alone makes it
worthwhile. Just because you take exception I could
care less.

on pit row, a clear violation since you are not, at that
of them were right after putting on fresh tires.
you made after your one around lap 85 did not fill up the
you were never again running with a full tank.  To make
and a few 9s and went right into the 16s, just like you
followed by about 4-5 high 9s, then you went right into the 16s,

    The point I was trying to make was not how fast I could go but the fact
that when the race started I could hardly do 116's
without bouncing off the walls. In other words it was overly tight from what
it had been any other time I had used it. Many 100's
if not a thousand laps in practice both online and off. I'm sorry you think
that I'm a liar and can't tell the difference.
    You know I could careless if I'm the fastest out there unlike you. Why
don't you tell everyone about how you hacked
the Fast Lap program years ago so you could be the fastest. Unless that was
a different Tim White.

'faster' setups in a fixed setup race is one of them.

    You are an expert on bugs in the game now! Wow I'm impressed.

is by far the best sim, the best version, we've ever had.
frankly, I think it is an awesome sim, with more features
have now, how could anyone be anything but satisfied?

    There you go with your poor reading comprehension again. When have I
stated that this game wasn't the best we have ever had.

sounding like Michael Moorer; sooner or later, no one will

    I am enjoying it other wise I wouldn't be playing it. As far as sounding
like Michael Moorer I'd rather be classified as an Ass
rather than the hacker you used to be. I tried to pass along things that I
have learned and if you find that offensive too bad.

    Pete

LOL

Jan.
=---
PS.: you just scored infinity on TOFURank, though. <g>

But as your reputation proceeds you, you seem to be intent on making another mountain out of a mole hill.  I never said you said you
were the fastest; we all know you, and I, are not.  Even though you describe your practice times as "I wasn't really pushing it ...
bla bla bla"

Every damn time someone like you cries 'cheater', and 'bugs', and any other number of lame excuses for your performance or lack
thereof, is just plain stupid.  I for one, am tired of it Pete.  The vast majority of the racers on RASCAR do not care about that
crap; unless I am misreading this ng, they just want to race, and have fun.  Since you never seem to have anything good to say about
someone else's work, your opinions continue to come across as jaded.

I suspect the only reason we hear about your theories here, is no other league would have it?  Perhaps not.

But you are in fact failing to recognize that the lap times you did simply did not indicate anything other than hotlapping, and
fuel.  Period.  In my silly attempt to try to help you figure things out, it was obviously a mistake to try to explain a possible,
valid reason.

I am sorry we disagree on how great a sim, or not, N2003 is, but you pontificating how every little quirk in the sim is either a
bug, or a cheat, is utter useless to this group.  No one cares, it is still the best sim out there and, up to now, I am overall
extremely pleased with what we have to race with.

Now, as for you pacifying yourself by labeling me a cheater ...

For the record, I told (only) Don about hacking his attempt at the Fastlap program in a phone conversation in 1997, after he was
banned from the NROS for privately downloading everyones' setups with that program, to explain to him that he hadn't actually
achieved what he thought he had with his software protection, of which he thanked me by the way.  He called me, and wanted new
teammates, and I thanked him for the idea of what Fastlap could've accomplished.  I believe the ideals of it are still one of the
great innovations of online racing.

I will assume that since you either ignored that, or Don simply forgot to mention all the facts, your opinions there are as biased
as everything else you seem to have to offer.

You are free to say whatever you like on a ng without a moderator, but when you mislead people like you do with your bug hunts,
don't get your panties in such a wad when someone finds fault in your facts.

That Don chooses to tell anyone who will listen, what his intentions, or mine, were is up to him.  You thinking that information
will somehow tarnish what I've tried to do online is a waste of time.  I don't recall you helping anyone with how to actually drive
faster, longer, manipulate what holes the game may legally allow, or offering personal setups free to the public.

On the contrary, your the worst kind of online racer; one whose only way of getting better is by making everyone else around them
look worse.  If you never race another RASCAR event again, we'd be better of for it.  The examples these guys set for one another do
more good then any harm you can really do.  I honestly hope you do continue to race, since your excuses become self evident over
time.

Regardless, don't ever call me a cheater again, you sick miserable ***, unless you find Wilshes diskettes sitting on my desk.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

   I don't use XP,  I don't have a great deal of inside knowledge about the
workings of the Papy sims,  I don't have a high grade wheel.  But the part
about pots and improved driving intrigues me.  I wonder if the 'better'
driving comes from how XP interacts with hardware rather than any
individual sim.  I too have seen posts about wheels working better with(I
THINK) higher resistance pots.  It's my fault for not paying more attention
to those threads but here's what I have read, or at least what has stuck.
  The Older high quality wheels were all designed back in the days of
win9x.(Ecci's TSW's etc)  I don't know how they have been updated, but a
google search of ras will probably show a fairly constant thread over the
years of the fancy wheels being more difficult than the commercial products
to be fully functional.  I still see posts of TSW owners not getting split
pedals working with several newer titles.  
   So it would not be a suprise to me that the high quality wheels are also
more tempermental operating within an XP enviroment.  The fact that
changing to a different value of pots improves things, may mean that XP
reads the information in a manner different than Win9x.  Again I'm no
expert, I wouldn't know how to prove anything I've said.  This is just my
anecdotal(sp?) view based on other's posts.  
   So the Papyrus titles may very well have 'timing' issues.  But the
hardware has also been shown to have issues with many Non-Papyrus titles.  
Indeed when a high price wheel owner asks for help, the first thing they
usually state is that the wheel works fine with GPL or other Papyrus sims.
  You may now return to your regularly scheduled flamefest.
dave henrie

Wow - even Dave and Yem. didnt do that well.

Doug

:)

Where can I get the "feash tires" patch. If that's why you're always
so much faster than me, I want to use it too.

:)