rec.autos.simulators

by **Peter Hol** » Thu, 31 May 2001 00:46:03

I saw a post today on the High Gear hardware forum from J Bodin
regarding the Simchassis in which he says the price of a Simchassis
"puts to shame" the price of a Hyper. As a long time Hyper owner (5
years), I thought some comment was called for.

The important point is that the Simchassis does not include a steering
wheel and pedals where the Hyper does, and they are the equal of
anything on the market.

To properly compare the two, you would have to add to the Simchassis
the cost of a top quality wheel and pedals. For example, the cheapest
Thomas Superwheel that has comparable features to the Hyper's wheel is
US$855. Adding that makes the comparison come out somewhat
differently.

I'm sure that people who are happy with their existing controls would
find the Simchassis a good way to get away from driving sitting at a
desk but to simply compare the price without noting what you get for
the money is misleading.

BTW, the only connection I have with Hyperstimulator is as a satisfied
customer.

Peter Holt

by **Julian Taylo** » Thu, 31 May 2001 01:56:49

I don't own either, but have to agree entirely. When I saw the simchassis -
I thought where's the wheel and pedals? I hope to purchase a Hyperstimulator
one day, but I'll be going for the basic option where you just get the plans
of the chassis and have to cut it out of MDF board yourself - will save on
freight costs too.
BTW Hyperstim havent updated their site news for what appears to be years -
are they still making/selling Hyperstimulators?

by **John Bod** » Thu, 31 May 2001 05:27:42

But I already own a wheel and pedals, as do many others here
(actually, I have several: A TSW, TSW2, ACT Labs RS, Saitek R4 Force,
etc.). A Hyperstimulator would not allow me to take advantage of any
of these existing wheel/pedal combos, thus negating that investment
for me, AND effectively making the Hyperstimulator that much more
expensive of a purchase option. If you don't already have a wheel and
pedal combo, then the Hyperstimulator may be a more attractive
alternative.

And what about the people who enjoy Force Feedback? You can use a
Force Feedback wheel with a SimChassis, but not with a
Hyperstimulator.

Taken in this light (which is how I intended it), I think my comment
is still valid.

True. But you can just as easily use a $49 Thrustmaster wheel, or a
$29 Saitek wheel with a Hyperstimulator, if that's what you already
have.

Yes, this is effectively what I was getting at -- my apologies for
drawing a somewhat unfair comparison.

I admire the Hyperstimulator as a product, but as someone with no room
for a***pit, it's just impractical for me. SimChassis offers two
products that DO work nicely for me, though -- the Micro and the
Jackman models.

As I think I said in my original post, the real strength of the
SimChassis line is the diversity of products. I did not mean to imply
that the Hyperstimulator is not an excellent product, but my Micro and
my TSW2 still cost quite a bit less than a Hyperstimulator, and that
is where my comment about price was coming from.

Sorry if I offended any Hyperstimulator owners out there -- that was
not my intention.

-- JB

by **Jon Crook** » Thu, 31 May 2001 07:31:11

> ......BTW Hyperstim haven't updated their site news for what appears to be

years - are they still making/selling Hyperstimulators?

Hi Julian,
Yes Hyper is still making and selling Simulators. The company has offices in
Australia, Europe and the USA. And we have just appointed a distributor in
your neck of the woods, Auckland NZ. In Australia olone we have 8 race
centres. I'm the person in charge of their web site but I also have many
other responsibilities within the company and we are so ***y busy that the
news section of the web site hasn't received the attention it needs. I
apologize for being a slack mole and thank you for the kick up the arse. I
will endeavour to update the news page in the next few days. Keep an eye out
for pics of a 2000 F1 Ferrari and a Jordon Hyper Stimulator.

Jon Crooke

> I don't own either, but have to agree entirely. When I saw the simchassis -
> I thought where's the wheel and pedals? I hope to purchase a Hyperstimulator
> one day, but I'll be going for the basic option where you just get the plans
> of the chassis and have to cut it out of MDF board yourself - will save on
> freight costs too.
> BTW Hyperstim havent updated their site news for what appears to be years -
> are they still making/selling Hyperstimulators?

>> I saw a post today on the High Gear hardware forum from J Bodin
>> regarding the Simchassis in which he says the price of a Simchassis
>> "puts to shame" the price of a Hyper. As a long time Hyper owner (5
>> years), I thought some comment was called for.

>> The important point is that the Simchassis does not include a steering
>> wheel and pedals where the Hyper does, and they are the equal of
>> anything on the market.

>> To properly compare the two, you would have to add to the Simchassis
>> the cost of a top quality wheel and pedals. For example, the cheapest
>> Thomas Superwheel that has comparable features to the Hyper's wheel is
>> US$855. Adding that makes the comparison come out somewhat
>> differently.

>> I'm sure that people who are happy with their existing controls would
>> find the Simchassis a good way to get away from driving sitting at a
>> desk but to simply compare the price without noting what you get for
>> the money is misleading.

>> BTW, the only connection I have with Hyperstimulator is as a satisfied
>> customer.

>> Peter Holt

by **Don Scurlo** » Thu, 31 May 2001 14:53:23

>>I saw a post today on the High Gear hardware forum from J Bodin
>>regarding the Simchassis in which he says the price of a Simchassis
>>"puts to shame" the price of a Hyper. As a long time Hyper owner (5
>>years), I thought some comment was called for.

>>The important point is that the Simchassis does not include a steering
>>wheel and pedals where the Hyper does, and they are the equal of
>>anything on the market.

>But I already own a wheel and pedals, as do many others here
>(actually, I have several: A TSW, TSW2, ACT Labs RS, Saitek R4 Force,
>etc.). A Hyperstimulator would not allow me to take advantage of any
>of these existing wheel/pedal combos, thus negating that investment
>for me, AND effectively making the Hyperstimulator that much more
>expensive of a purchase option. If you don't already have a wheel and
>pedal combo, then the Hyperstimulator may be a more attractive
>alternative.

Just jumping in with a comment. The best thing about a Hyper IS the pedal
system, particularly the brake, which combined with the seating posistion, is
superior to anything I've tried including ECCI and TSW. So building your own
chassis/seat setup, no matter how nice, and adding a wheel/pedal system to it
does not make it the same as a Hyper. Their steering wheel design unfortunately
is not that great.

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

GPLRank -12.23
MonsterRank 115.12

Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site
http://gplrank.ringlord.com/

by **Ed Solhei** » Thu, 31 May 2001 20:44:37

When I saw the Simchassis for the first time - I was looking for the wheels
and pedals.. Then as I noticed they there were infact not included - I
started to laugh..... over the price.

$700 for some MDF-boards you can get at the localstore for $20 ???? Get
outta here!! Biggest rip-off I've seen in years - even beat the Hyperstims!

All a bunch hype (pardon the expression!) IMO - I'm pretty sure that for I
could make something like that for the fraction of the costs.

--
ed_
--
Note!
Return address is *not* my own - but the e-mail address to an e-mail
mass-distribution company that have bothered me one time to many!
Eat this - suckers!

by **John Bod** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 00:19:27

Unless you have your own CNC operation, I guarantee you that you could
NOT make your own version of a SimChassis seating system. The
SimChassis features a patent-pending slot-and-slide assembly system
for the seat cushion and backrest that allow you to change the seating
position to various angles to best fit your body. Also, the precision
cuts involved could not be duplicated using home woodworking tools.
With the precision required to reproduce a SimChassis design, jigsaws,
scroll saws, or band saws just wouldn't cut it (pun intended, of
course!). <G>

Also, the $700 price you mention is more than a little misleading:
This is the price for a full-cockpit version -- the SimChassis seat
itself starts at $125 -- this is suitable for use with game consoles,
or if you'd like to use it as a basis for your own***pit creation.
The Jackman and Micro models are both $200 and $299, respectively, and
these are much more versatile than a full-cockpit system, in my
opinion. I don't have room for a full***pit -- either a SimChassis
product or a Hyperstimulator -- but I do have room for a Micro or a
Jackman, that makes all the difference in the world for me (and a lot
of other people, I'm sure).

-- JB

by **Steve Garrot** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 00:31:59

Many people spend lots of money on furniture that one could make out
of wood themselves. I lack the expertise and tools to make furniture,
or a Sim Chassis. I am sure my wife is glad I have not tried to make a
chassis! :-O For what the SimChassis is, it works very well. It is a
product with almost limitless possibilities of configurations. The
wood used in the SimChassis products is also cut with a CNC machine,
this I am sure adds to the expense, but also allows more control of
the product.

I use a custom set of pedals and an ACT Labs Force RS with shifter in
mine. My brother-in-law uses his custom pedals and wheel in his. I can
use my mouse/trackball and keyboard in the chassis, I can place my
15",17", or 19" on it and get the placement right for the aspect
ratio. I can even bring home the projector from work and display it
life size on the wall! I have had people that are very large, that
were able to get into the SimChassis, as the mount for the wheel and
monitor move forward and back so you can exit the chassis without
pulling something :-O.

SLG

>When I saw the Simchassis for the first time - I was looking for the wheels
>and pedals.. Then as I noticed they there were infact not included - I
>started to laugh..... over the price.

>$700 for some MDF-boards you can get at the localstore for $20 ???? Get
>outta here!! Biggest rip-off I've seen in years - even beat the Hyperstims!

>All a bunch hype (pardon the expression!) IMO - I'm pretty sure that for I
>could make something like that for the fraction of the costs.

>--
>ed_
>--
>Note!
>Return address is *not* my own - but the e-mail address to an e-mail
>mass-distribution company that have bothered me one time to many!
>Eat this - suckers!

>> I saw a post today on the High Gear hardware forum from J Bodin
>> regarding the Simchassis in which he says the price of a Simchassis
>> "puts to shame" the price of a Hyper. As a long time Hyper owner (5
>> years), I thought some comment was called for.

>> The important point is that the Simchassis does not include a steering
>> wheel and pedals where the Hyper does, and they are the equal of
>> anything on the market.

>> To properly compare the two, you would have to add to the Simchassis
>> the cost of a top quality wheel and pedals. For example, the cheapest
>> Thomas Superwheel that has comparable features to the Hyper's wheel is
>> US$855. Adding that makes the comparison come out somewhat
>> differently.

>> I'm sure that people who are happy with their existing controls would
>> find the Simchassis a good way to get away from driving sitting at a
>> desk but to simply compare the price without noting what you get for
>> the money is misleading.

>> BTW, the only connection I have with Hyperstimulator is as a satisfied
>> customer.

>> Peter Holt

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new
and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are
due to too many English classes/teachers)

by **Peter Hol** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 00:56:03

>Just jumping in with a comment. The best thing about a Hyper IS the pedal
>system, particularly the brake, which combined with the seating posistion, is
>superior to anything I've tried including ECCI and TSW. So building your own
>chassis/seat setup, no matter how nice, and adding a wheel/pedal system to it
>does not make it the same as a Hyper. Their steering wheel design unfortunately
>is not that great.

What's wrong with the Hyper steering wheel, Don?

Peter Holt

by **Jeffrey Haa** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 03:38:13

wheel design unfortunately

There are several different Hyper wheels out there so
he needs to qualify that. Mine is a butterfly shape with the
buttons in the center and flippers in the back. There is
also a sideways "D" shape and a round "historic" model
available. The centering on mine is not real strong so maybe
he doesn't like that. I find it quite nice and has been said, there
are absolutely NO pedals out there with the real feel like the
hyper has.

Jeff

by **Ian** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 01:03:56

$125 is still an awful lot of cash for a sim seat.
I use an old bookcase cut in half for the base and a car seat from a
scrapyard. Totally adjustable and very comfortable. Cost 10 or about $16 :)

I could buy some MDF and make it into an enclosed***pit for another 20 or
so including paint and screws. This way doesn't need any CNC equipment, but
I could at a push get access to it if required.

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spammers>

> >When I saw the Simchassis for the first time - I was looking for the
wheels
> >and pedals.. Then as I noticed they there were infact not included - I
> >started to laugh..... over the price.

> >$700 for some MDF-boards you can get at the localstore for $20 ???? Get
> >outta here!! Biggest rip-off I've seen in years - even beat the
Hyperstims!

> >All a bunch hype (pardon the expression!) IMO - I'm pretty sure that for
I
> >could make something like that for the fraction of the costs.

> Unless you have your own CNC operation, I guarantee you that you could
> NOT make your own version of a SimChassis seating system. The
> SimChassis features a patent-pending slot-and-slide assembly system
> for the seat cushion and backrest that allow you to change the seating
> position to various angles to best fit your body. Also, the precision
> cuts involved could not be duplicated using home woodworking tools.
> With the precision required to reproduce a SimChassis design, jigsaws,
> scroll saws, or band saws just wouldn't cut it (pun intended, of
> course!). <G>

> Also, the $700 price you mention is more than a little misleading:
> This is the price for a full-cockpit version -- the SimChassis seat
> itself starts at $125 -- this is suitable for use with game consoles,
> or if you'd like to use it as a basis for your own***pit creation.
> The Jackman and Micro models are both $200 and $299, respectively, and
> these are much more versatile than a full-cockpit system, in my
> opinion. I don't have room for a full***pit -- either a SimChassis
> product or a Hyperstimulator -- but I do have room for a Micro or a
> Jackman, that makes all the difference in the world for me (and a lot
> of other people, I'm sure).

> -- JB

by **Jeffrey Haa** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 03:47:02

>Unless you have your own CNC operation, I guarantee you that you could
>NOT make your own version of a SimChassis seating system. The
>SimChassis features a patent-pending slot-and-slide assembly system
>for the seat cushion and backrest that allow you to change the seating
>position to various angles to best fit your body. Also, the precision
>cuts involved could not be duplicated using home woodworking tools.
>With the precision required to reproduce a SimChassis design, jigsaws,
>scroll saws, or band saws just wouldn't cut it (pun intended, of
>course!). <G>

John,

You can do a reasonably good job (though not Penske quality ) with a
hand sabre saw and a router and a lot of time and patience. I built my
Hyper Stim from plans that had to be cut out, glued to wood and then
cut out, routed, drilled, sanded and painted. A hell of a lot of work
but I saved a bundle. I think the slide together concept of the
SimChassis is a nice feature and I would probably have opted for it a
couple of years ago when I bought my Hyper. The hyper is a quantum
step above though IMHO and if you you have the patience and time can
be a reasonable price if you purchase the plans and hardware ...

Jeff

by **Andrew Merciec** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 07:25:54

Hi Jon,

Just finished reading, again, an article by John Booker regarding the day
spent at your Lilydale centre by members of the VFT. If u wish to see the
article go to http://www.racesimcentral.net/
All of us had a great time and it's good to Australia's ex-F2 Champion still
at the head of the pack in the world of Sim-Racing.

--
Snappin' Away,
Andrew Mercieca
VFT Member, Licensed CAMS Official
F3, O3, U3
GPLRank Handicap = 62.38

"Julian

> > ......BTW Hyperstim haven't updated their site news for what appears to
be
> years - are they still making/selling Hyperstimulators?

> Hi Julian,
> Yes Hyper is still making and selling Simulators. The company has offices
in
> Australia, Europe and the USA. And we have just appointed a distributor in
> your neck of the woods, Auckland NZ. In Australia olone we have 8 race
> centres. I'm the person in charge of their web site but I also have many
> other responsibilities within the company and we are so ***y busy that
the
> news section of the web site hasn't received the attention it needs. I
> apologize for being a slack mole and thank you for the kick up the arse. I
> will endeavour to update the news page in the next few days. Keep an eye
out
> for pics of a 2000 F1 Ferrari and a Jordon Hyper Stimulator.

> Jon Crooke

"Julian

> > I don't own either, but have to agree entirely. When I saw the
simchassis -
> > I thought where's the wheel and pedals? I hope to purchase a
Hyperstimulator
> > one day, but I'll be going for the basic option where you just get the
plans
> > of the chassis and have to cut it out of MDF board yourself - will save
on
> > freight costs too.
> > BTW Hyperstim havent updated their site news for what appears to be
years -
> > are they still making/selling Hyperstimulators?

> >> I saw a post today on the High Gear hardware forum from J Bodin
> >> regarding the Simchassis in which he says the price of a Simchassis
> >> "puts to shame" the price of a Hyper. As a long time Hyper owner (5
> >> years), I thought some comment was called for.

> >> The important point is that the Simchassis does not include a steering
> >> wheel and pedals where the Hyper does, and they are the equal of
> >> anything on the market.

> >> To properly compare the two, you would have to add to the Simchassis
> >> the cost of a top quality wheel and pedals. For example, the cheapest
> >> Thomas Superwheel that has comparable features to the Hyper's wheel is
> >> US$855. Adding that makes the comparison come out somewhat
> >> differently.

> >> I'm sure that people who are happy with their existing controls would
> >> find the Simchassis a good way to get away from driving sitting at a
> >> desk but to simply compare the price without noting what you get for
> >> the money is misleading.

> >> BTW, the only connection I have with Hyperstimulator is as a satisfied
> >> customer.

> >> Peter Holt

by **Edward_** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:00:50

The best one is the one you build entirely yourself...
http://members.home.net/ecrawford1/mara/Racing%20Cockpit.htm
Has served me faithfully for quite sometime, and was built for a fraction of
the cost of either of the others.

Edward

> When I saw the Simchassis for the first time - I was looking for the
wheels
> and pedals.. Then as I noticed they there were infact not included - I
> started to laugh..... over the price.

> $700 for some MDF-boards you can get at the localstore for $20 ???? Get
> outta here!! Biggest rip-off I've seen in years - even beat the
Hyperstims!

> All a bunch hype (pardon the expression!) IMO - I'm pretty sure that for I
> could make something like that for the fraction of the costs.

> --
> ed_
> --
> Note!
> Return address is *not* my own - but the e-mail address to an e-mail
> mass-distribution company that have bothered me one time to many!
> Eat this - suckers!

> > I saw a post today on the High Gear hardware forum from J Bodin
> > regarding the Simchassis in which he says the price of a Simchassis
> > "puts to shame" the price of a Hyper. As a long time Hyper owner (5
> > years), I thought some comment was called for.

> > The important point is that the Simchassis does not include a steering
> > wheel and pedals where the Hyper does, and they are the equal of
> > anything on the market.

> > To properly compare the two, you would have to add to the Simchassis
> > the cost of a top quality wheel and pedals. For example, the cheapest
> > Thomas Superwheel that has comparable features to the Hyper's wheel is
> > US$855. Adding that makes the comparison come out somewhat
> > differently.

> > I'm sure that people who are happy with their existing controls would
> > find the Simchassis a good way to get away from driving sitting at a
> > desk but to simply compare the price without noting what you get for
> > the money is misleading.

> > BTW, the only connection I have with Hyperstimulator is as a satisfied
> > customer.

> > Peter Holt

by **Jon Crook** » Fri, 01 Jun 2001 11:31:53

> The centering on mine is not real strong so maybe
> he doesn't like that.
> Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I'm the person responsible for designing the Hyper Stimulator including the
centering feel of the Hyper Stimulator wheel. I based my design parameters
on my own extensive experience of driving Formula 2 ground effects (National
Champion) and non-ground effects cars, Formula Fords, Formula Vee's and V8
Supercars (Works Mobil/Brock driver). All the open wheeler cars displayed
very little centering due to the low castor angles used. The V8 Supercar had
only slightly more centering weight. I think where some people get confused
with centering weight is that their experience with driving a racing vehicle
is in a Go-Kart. Go-Karts run very high castor angles and as a result
provide very strong centering.

Great to hear that you're happy with your Hyper.

Regards Jon Crooke.

rec.autos.simulators

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SimChassis V Hyperstimulator

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