rec.autos.simulators

by **Bob Curti** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Then my question is: why did these geniuses go out and buy it anyway and THEN ***
about it?

> The detractors are saying what a lot of others were saying prior to its
> release: that compared to what preceeded it, N3 is not a _major_
> improvement over N2.

> It seems to me that this argument is based on the fact that these people
> have all experienced the heights of realism offered by GPL and N3, whilst
> containing "improvements" over N2, is still on a far lower plateau.

> Just the opinion of a disinterested party.

> BK

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

by **Mark Seer** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Hmmm.
I beat Christer Anderson to the line this weekend in a 29 lap race at
Zandvoort. The margin........1/100 of a second!

Mark

> Disagreed. GPL gives them both. F1 for challenge and F3 for racing
> experience ;)

> >Geeez , go race yourself online for 40 minutes while waiting for someone
> to
> >either wait up for you, or you wait up for someone , so you can actually
> see
> >another car on the track. I love GPL for the pure fun of driving the
cars.
> >But if I want to actually race, I do it off-line with GPL. If I want
great,
> >competitive on-line racing, N3 is for me. That is the big difference
> between
> >these two sims. N3 gives you the on-line racing experience, GPL gives
you
> the
> >realism.

> >I love them both

> >Rick Sweeney

by **Michael Barlo** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> > Hey whiner, tell me where to get a better NASCAR sim. Take it back to
> > Hastings and then shut up.

> Gee.

> There's an argument.

> Settling is bullshit. If it weren't for the screwy licensing system and
> the shear threat of having lawyers unleashed upon someone willing to ante
> up a better NASCAR sim, I'm sure this thing would have been outclassed or
> discontinued altogether before it's now lame pathetic third incarnation.

> Welcome to Usenet. Get used to reading opinions that differ from your
> own, genius. If you can't handle that, find another hobby.

> -j.c.h.

Not having N3 or NASCAR Rev.. I just wonder what the differences are?
I'd assume the graphics are better in N3, so lets skip the graphics
part. What about the physics?
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

by **John Walla** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Very tolerant of other people's opinions there Bob. He said HE is let
down, not you - how can you know his feelings better than him?

Cheers!
John

by **John Walla** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:46:42 -0500, "Gary A. Burns"

>Go play your GPL. Leave the real racing to us.

ER, LOL....

That old cliche could apply, but then "If it ain't broke and hasn't
been fixed, why pay for it all over again? N3 is pretty cool, and
somewhat improved compared to N2, but there's no doubt it could have
been so much better if offering the same involvement and driving
dynamics as GPL.

Surely you can't disagree with that?

Cheers!
John

by **Michael Barlo** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:31:15 +1000,

> >In the USA, as a general rule can you simply return software because you
> >don't like it?
> >If so, you have some very liberal consumer laws.

> No, its up to the merchant. Electronics Boutique, for example,
> will accept opened returns, no questions asked, for 10 days.
> I believe they have the same policy in the U.K, and Australia.

> * rrevved at mindspring dot com
> * unit.26 s.p.u.t.u.m.
> * http://www.cabal.net

In the US, it is the law that anything a consumer buys can be returned
for a full refund as long as it's returned with in (I think it is...) 10
days. no matter what the condition the product is in when being
returned. It's one of those laws that the
corporations/stores/dealers.... don't want you to know about. This also
includes buying a Ferrari at 200,000.00. You can crash that ferrari and
return it for a full refund with in 10(?) days. We found that out while
looking for stupid and still active laws. Did you know it's illegal to
hunt wild Zebra in NYS? ;-)
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

by **Zonk** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> It's one of those laws that the
>corporations/stores/dealers.... don't want you to know about. This also
>includes buying a Ferrari at 200,000.00. You can crash that ferrari and
>return it for a full refund with in 10(?) days

this suprises me. In the UK at least, the return has to be in "saleable"
condition, or broken as a result of normal operation use.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

by **Chris Schlette** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

What Mark forgot to say is that Christer also drove through the field like a
madman possessed to make up for a bumble at the start of the field. :)

by **Chris Schlette** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Perhaps its just me, but in the about 4 to 5 hours I've put into N3 so far
including loading up my copy of N2 with all patches and playing it with a
joystick [LWFF doesn't work real well with N2. :)], I really don't "feel"
much of a major difference at all.
I keep expecting to feel, and see when looking for arcade views to check out
the model, the car squatting when you apply serious power in the pits and
smoke the wheels, can't see it at all so not sure if a) its modeled or b)
its modeled but not translated through the model well whcih doesn't do much
of a good thing. Also, unless I'm blind or something it does not seem to
dive forward either under severe braking which does not include locking up
the wheels. I used to do 122s or so at WG all the time on NROS awhile back
and I honestly dont remember ever seeing or feeling my tires lock up. I
tried all sorts of stuff [hey, I am really only interested in mostly road
courses...sigh, wish I could convert ICR2 road courses to GPL] to get the
wheels to lock up and can't.

However, I've only spent a limited time on it, so perhaps I'm just not
looking hard enough or paying enough attention.

by **Chris Schlette** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Thats nearly as stupid of comment as many made my the guy who can't even be
bothered to include his email address. However, at least he had some valid
points intermixed with a lot of rampant stupidity.

And "real" racing can be taken many different ways. GPL being most arguably
the most realistic simulator for a PC as far as auto racing dynamics goes
can be argued to be "real racing". Granted, its not for everyone because of
a) the theme of 67 GP cars, b) the problems associated with driving nearly
uncontrollable 67 GP cars, c) whatever else you can come up with. Arguments
that are just as valid can be made for N3/NROS type racing where perhaps the
driving model dynamics are not quite as spot on as in GPL, but the racing is
a bit closer [for whatever reason be it simpler physics, easier to drive,
type of racing, etc] for the majority is more attune to "real racing".
Bottom line it comes down to personal preference.

Personally its my opinion that you should go "play" your N3, and leave the
real racing (aka GPL) to the rest of us. :? But then again, thats just me.
:)

> Go play your GPL. Leave the real racing to us. The reason that the game
> does not seem that different from N1/N2 is that the old saying "If it
ain't
> broke, then don't fix it" applies. Get over it and stop your crying.

> > Good grief what a let down.

> > Been playing Nascar 3 on my system for about 3 hours now.

> > I don't think I've been this let down in quite some time. I know that
> > they declared that N3 wouldn't use the GPL engine quite a while back,
but
> > this is rediculous.

> > I challenge anyone to find the difference between this game and Nascar
2/1
> > aside from a couple of tweakable chassis settings that have a disputable
> > affect if any whatsoever on the car performance/handling whatsoever.

> > This game is _another_ rewrite of Nascar 1. Nothing more except for
> > eyecandy. Even the soundsin Nascar 1 were better than this. Exhaust
> > sounds are _completely_ the same from car to car, and are no better than
> > anything you'd find in one of the cheesy Need for Speed series games.

> > Realistic handling settings? My ass. From the get go I disabled all
> > "helpers" for steering and braking, and find it hard to***up doing
> > anything. The car drives like a damned station wagon. Even taking off
in
> > the pits gives you limited spinning sensation when you "smoke" the
> > tires.... which by the way seems to be the only way to exit a pit
without
> > tagging another car's ass.

> > And no steering wheel in the***pit? WTF is this? I can understand
not
> > wanting to obstruct the guages, but then why make the hud completely
> > unconfigurable ... not to mention even leaving the SAME status display
> > boxes in the SAME area which are called up by the SAME function keys to
> > reveal the SAME limited information?

> > The pit crew is the same stupid pose of a group of pit people on your
team
> > that posseses absolutely no movement charateristics whatsoever
regardless
> > of what view you're in. THE SAME POSES even. Just updated graphics/a
> > sharper still image of them.

> > I just ran my car at 160 mph into a wall now, and on REALISTIC damage
> > settings, ALL graphical options maxed (p3-450, 2 12mb voodoo
2's/Creative
> > TNT2Ultra, 256mb ram), there was absolutely NO debris coming from the
car.
> > The only signs of a wreck were the missing tire on my front left side
and
> > the obvious, though not even closely modelled inability to turn left.
> > Pathetic.

> > I guess my main question that I pose to the group is if Randy Cassidy
and
> > crew are working on Nascar Legends, and what if any resemblance to GPL
it
> > will have in the engine. This piece of ***is going back to hastings
> > _tonight_. Please do NOT let them try to get the settings dumbed down
> > like this garbage.

> > Way to try to cash in on your nascar license Sierra. You've created a
$50
> > addon pack to the 6 other titles you currently market using the Nascar 1
> > game engine.

> > Back to GPL... the one game I can honestly say I've played more hours
> > (bought 2 days after it hit the rack) than anything I've bought for any
> > system ever.

> > As a matter of fact, Sierra, release an addon for GPL. At least it
would
> > be worth $50. This belongs in a bargain bin. Yesterday.
> > --

> > -j.c.h.
> > spill /|t frenzy dawt cawm

by **Rexv** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:55:39 -0400, Michael Barlow

> Not having N3 or NASCAR Rev.. I just wonder what the differences are?
>I'd assume the graphics are better in N3, so lets skip the graphics
>part. What about the physics?

Straight up the physics in N3 are a joke. You can go flat out, nail
the brakes, drive through corners flat out, hit walls, spin, etc.
Nothing of them is even remotely real nor are most of the handling
adjustments. This is about the least realistic sim I have ever dealt
with this side of Pole Position.. Remember that one? It came out on
the Atari 2600 after debuting in an arcade?

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

by **Rexv** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:30:36 -0500, "Chris Schletter"

>> Not having N3 or NASCAR Rev.. I just wonder what the differences are?
>> I'd assume the graphics are better in N3, so lets skip the graphics
>> part. What about the physics?

>Perhaps its just me, but in the about 4 to 5 hours I've put into N3 so far
>including loading up my copy of N2 with all patches and playing it with a
>joystick [LWFF doesn't work real well with N2. :)], I really don't "feel"
>much of a major difference at all.

Try this, going into a sharp corner flat out and totally lifting off
the throttle results in: ta da! The car steers tighter into the corner
and holds the line (or still plows right off the track). Reality? The
car would have gone into serious oversteer! You can even mash the
brake in the middle of the corner and it simply tucks down lower into
the corner but doesn't even attempt to spin. If it happens to lockt
he tires (no hint of when it will actually do this, it's either on or
off) it slides into the wall, makes a few cheesy sounds, bounces for
about 50' then continues at pretty much the same speed as initial
impact. You have a 40% chance of the voice coming on to tell you that
you have serious rear end damage which is the bumper being knocked
half off..which isn't to bad until you realise you hit the wall with
the right but the picture depicts the LEFT side of the bumper falling
off! Oh yeah.. this is another 'feature'.

All the while the phrase 'feel' never comes into the game. There is
no sensation of speed, not even when the lines at 'dega start passing
by really fast. It simply feels like you are standing still and the
world is coming to meet you. Body roll isn't even really noticed but
in a car that tightly structured I would not expect it to be. You
don't see much of it in the actual cars on the track so it may well be
modelled accurately.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

by **Rexv** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:58:38 -0400, Michael Barlow

> We found that out while
>looking for stupid and still active laws. Did you know it's illegal to
>hunt wild Zebra in NYS? ;-)

There is also a nice law on the books in some county in the US (keep
thinking it's Louisianna or Texas but not sure) that if your animals
are fornicating in public view you can be fined up to $1,000 and
sentenced to 3 years in jail. This law dates back to the late 1890's
so $1,000 back then was a LOT of money.

There is also still a law on the books dating back to the original
cars in one area that dictates "upon approaching an intersection an a
horseless carrige the driver must stop the vehicle, turn the vehicle
off, ring a bell (describes bell), wait for a response, fire three
shots from a long-rifle into the air, wait for a response, ring the
bell again, and if no response is met may proceed normally. These
actions must be repeated at all intersections." (This law was enacted
with the intent to warn people on horses that might easily be spooked
that an auto was on the road and possibly heading toward them and was
in varying degree's pretty common.) Again, I'm not positive which 4
counties (yes, at least 4, possibly more) it is still on the books in
though obviously it's not enforced.. can you imagine the sheer road
rage at a 4-way stoplight in L.A.??? :)

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

by **Rexv** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:29:10 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

>Now, now, SpiLL!
>You should realise that if you criticise N3 then, in some quarters, you are
>also criticising ones manhood.

That doesn't speak well for those people then if Nascar is the equal
of their ... well, you get the idea. No wonder they sit in front of
TV's watching roundy-round races all day and football the rest of the
time. They haven't much of a manhood to get out and go on a date! ;)

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

by **Neil Rain** » Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> Thats nearly as stupid of comment as many made my the guy who can't even be
> bothered to include his email address. However, at least he had some valid
> points intermixed with a lot of rampant stupidity.

> And "real" racing can be taken many different ways. GPL being most arguably
> the most realistic simulator for a PC as far as auto racing dynamics goes
> can be argued to be "real racing". Granted, its not for everyone because of
> a) the theme of 67 GP cars, b) the problems associated with driving nearly
> uncontrollable 67 GP cars, c) whatever else you can come up with. Arguments
> that are just as valid can be made for N3/NROS type racing where perhaps the
> driving model dynamics are not quite as spot on as in GPL, but the racing is
> a bit closer [for whatever reason be it simpler physics, easier to drive,
> type of racing, etc] for the majority is more attune to "real racing".
> Bottom line it comes down to personal preference.

> Personally its my opinion that you should go "play" your N3, and leave the
> real racing (aka GPL) to the rest of us. :? But then again, thats just me.
> :)

Me too!

I do believe that I didn't really know what "real" racing was about
until I put in the time and effort to "master" GPL (well, perhaps I'm
overstating the case there!).

When I started I assumed I would get to the point where I'd got it
sussed and then that would be it, but I had no idea of just how much
depth there was in the process of going faster.

I'd got so used to the idea that I would just regularly pass cars until
I messed up, then start again and go through the same process (as in
Pole Position or even games like Revs), but of course when you're racing
well-matched opponents it's nothing like that.

In GPL you have to go through the humiliating experience of being
absolutely thrashed by the AI until you reach a level which in any other
game would be considered "expert" - and then you're only just getting
started!

After that you can really get into the racing experience, whether it be
against the AI or fellow competitors online - and since everyone has
been through the shared "learning experience" they have a lot more
understanding for each other as a result.

I'm sure this models the experience of driving real cars much more
closely than the typical arcade game - after all, if it was easy to
drive the cars what would be the point of paying Michael Schumacher $30
million a year?

Come to think of it, what *is* the point of that...

PS: I'm not saying there's no point in playing arcade games: just that
the experience is nothing like real racing - as several practising
racing drivers who play GPL will back me up (I hope!).

rec.autos.simulators

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.

GPL makes Nascar 3 just look silly.