My 2 cents.
John McClaren
Electrical Engineer
Interior Communications
JMcClaren on TEN
Tadej Krevh
Lotus Internet Racing organization
http://member.xoom.com/LotusRacing/
> Would be totally cool, but I doubt Geoff can make a better physics engine as
> GPL. The reason
> I think so is that he works on his own whilst there were several engineers at
> papy working a whole
> year on the physics engine. It would take Geoff at least 3 or 4 years to make
> it... (but HEY ! he might
> have started implementing the game before gp2 came out... ;o))
l8er
ronny
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Well... I am checking the Gp2 credits. and if I take out all the producing
aspect of the title made by Microprose..
Programming and Game design : Geoff Crammond
Menu Graphics : Pete Cooke
Topography of the racing circuits : Norman Surplus
Track data research : Celia Holmes
Tester : David Surplus
Oh I had an technical supplement with Gp2 and in it there is an additional
credit to Dave Amey who was the F1 Engineer who helped Geoff.
So yes Geoff made about 95% of Grand Prix2. F1GP was his baby alone, and
for Gp2 he got a little staff, including two brothers. That's why I often
said when people were asking info about a patch for Gp2 or a sequel that he
bought a private Island in Hawaii where he built himself a mansion. Gp2
sold over a million copies in Europe so where is all the money going after
the producing team ? Heh to him ;)
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Originally, GP3 was to be a "completion" of GP2 using the same basic
"engine", but include weather and improved graphics. Unless Geoff
totally scrapped this and started work from scratch on GP3, I highly
doubt we'll see a match for Papyrus's engine. However, that doesn't mean
that GP3 won't feel good. One thing that Geoff is good at, is making a
program feel right. I think his approach has always been to "make" it
feel right, in other words make the program mimic the feel. Where
Papyrus has taken the other approach and built a physics engine and then
worked on the program to utilize it.
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Given how much processor time is spent modelling the physics in GPL, does
anyone out there really think it is practical to use this for a 'modern' F1
sim. This would mean not only modelling everything that GPL models, but
also adding an aero model. To do this properly you would have to model the
effects of the tyres (ie the lift generated at speed), the undertray, front
and rear wing - which would all change depending on wing settings,
suspension setup and car manufacturer. It would also have to model the
effects of 'dirty air' from cars ahead and the loss of downforce when the
car gets sideways thru a corner or rides over a curb. Somewhere along the
line the processor will also have to make some sounds and draw all this on
the screen. Given that most computers out there are lucky to eek out 36fps
in GPL, I think it will be a while before we get to see a 'modern' F1 sim
with the same level of realism.
Dave Ewing
Didn't we hear some sort of vague rumors shortly after GP2 came out that Mr.
Crammond _was_ working on GP3? I think these sayings started when GP2 was
displayed at Brands Hatch... Can anybody back me up on that?
Mikey
I remember some time back reading an interview with someone from Papy, and
they stated that the way this physics engine was designed, once they knew a
specific set of values for a given vehicle they could plug those in, and thats
they way the sim would respond. they said you could make it feel like a '67 GP
car, or an 88 Honda Prelude.
T
<<
Hopefully, Papyrus has already taken this into consideration when they
designed the physics engine for GPL. Converting it to modern F1, or any
other era/form of racing, would then simply be just to plug in the right
values for that format. My guess is this is exactly what they have
done, given that the GPL engine is to be the basis of NASCAR3, a very
different form of racing.>>>
It appears as if the older pictures had much more texture depth
especially in the road surfaceand the cars look more detailed but they
mostlikely have to do this to run it full field with the current cpu
at the time.N3 should still rock:))
Skeeter
> It looks like you have missed the point of my post - being that the ovehead
> required for the GPL physics model currently leaves little time for the
> processor to take care of functions like graphics and sound. Adding an aero
> model on top of this will leave even less time. Consider the fact that the
> current physics model will account for aero drag only (with some modelling
> for drafting ?), while to model any car with aero assists will need to take
> into account wing sizes/settings, suspension settings, ride height, distance
> behind other cars, car pitch and yaw and calculate the effect of the forces
> produced. Given the huge load on processing power this would require, I
> don't think we will see any sim which does this as accurately as the
> non-aero model used in GPL anytime soon.
Hopefully, all this processing is already taking place and that
modifying the parameters of wing size, underbody shape, etc. is all that
needs to be done. If this isn't built in, then you are absolutely right
that this could eat up more processing power to add it.
Dave Ewing
