So you're saying that games/music need to pirated in order to become
widespread and succeed. Isn't that the idea of demos/radio play? Are you
saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?
Well...I bought a few CD's which are protected, and they refused to
play in my car cd player.....quite ironic that I had to download the
MP3's so I could burn a CD which would play in the car...and basically
I only listen to CD's in my car.
Cheers!
Remco
The group of people who are likely not to pay for a game/sim are the
ones who would never bother to buy a program if that was the only
option, so where is the threat to the software house revenue? None,
whatsoever.
And yes, for a small, up-and-coming sim developer, with plenty of
integrity and ideals, the major way of getting anywhere is by spreading
their game widely. In many cases, developers have been able to create a
living out of piracy, so to speak, yes.
Internet is a gold mine for all those people who have ideas, creativity,
integrity and persistence, and THOSE are the threat to the software
house revenue, not the piracy.
People who run corporates have never understood the nature of internet
and regard it as a threat to revenue instead of regarding it as the
lands of opportunity.
---Asgeir---
>>So you're saying that games/music need to pirated in order to become
>>widespread and succeed. Isn't that the idea of demos/radio play? Are you
>>saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?
> Well...I bought a few CD's which are protected, and they refused to
> play in my car cd player.....quite ironic that I had to download the
> MP3's so I could burn a CD which would play in the car...and basically
> I only listen to CD's in my car.
>> From my experience this is just like all the paranoia surrounding FILSCA
>> ie it's a load of ***- fear of the unknown. I've had GTR for over a
>> month. Had a few teething probs geting the game to install but this was
>> due to not having the lastest starforce drivers. No problems since.
> The innocent victim though is the non technical or new to PC user who
> wouldn't have a clue about downloading drivers. Not everyone will get past
> the teething troubles. If it doesn't install out of the box it doesn't
> work.
> The techies and the pirates won't find it a problem. PC compatibility
> issues
> are great enough without adding to them. A danger is a segment of the
> market
> will be driven to the simple to use consoles and that is where the major
> development will go.
--
Andi.
Remove only one zero to reply
> Yes, that may be selfish, but I am the one paying out the hard earned
money
> so I believe I have a right to be selfish :)
> -Larry
> >> If it doesn't stay within it's own domain (the game), and alters my
> >> system
> >> or adds background tasks, then I'll be skipping over it too.
> >> I purchased HL2 and I am VERY upset with how it works (Steam). I
haven't
> >> played it more than 15 min since I bought it.
> >> I want to sell it, but because of the draconian system that's involved
I
> >> don't even know if that's possible.
> >> -Larry
> >>> Because they are putting Starforce protection drivers in it. Even the
> >>> freaking demo has Starforce in it. I didn't buy HL2 because of Steam
> >>> and I certainly won't buy anymore games with Starforce after buying
> >>> Toca2. I classify Starforce as a Trojan. Look it up.
> > Honestly Larry I think your blaming the wrong crowd. Youre aiming at
the
> > "easy" tgt instead of the crooks whose fault this really is. We live in
> > an
> > era of "lowest common denominator" sadly and its only going to get worse
> > so
> > Id suggest*** up the PC now before you give yourself a heart attack
> > ;)
> > Up till recently the internet has been the wild wild west of our
> > generation.
> > Do you think its now ok to go around shooting people at a poker table
now
> > as it was in 1880? Well thats how future generations will look back and
> > see this time period of the internet IMO. I could be wrong but history
> > sets a pretty good example.
> > Mitch
> > --
> > Remove "nospam." to reply.
> > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a
Uwe Schrkamp enlightened us with:
>> Referring to Mehdi Ali, a name that will (and should) forever live
>> on in infamy.
>> Do I win a prize..? ;)
> Pick up your beer when you're in the area ;-)
> Talking of the Deathbed Vigil video, does anyone have a digital copy?
> My old VCR is acting up and I have no means of converting analog video
> to digital formats.
> Cheers & WD,
> uwe
Peter enlightened us with:
> This leaves those who are somewhere in between. Those who, if the
> opportunity of free software were put before them, may well say yes.
> How many are in that number is too difficult to quantify, though I
> would imagine it is quite large. I know of many, many users who
> wouldn't think twice about the ramifications of someone giving them a
> free piece of software on cd. Who wouldn't even consider that they
> were doing anything illegal or dishonest. Ordinary citizens who
> wouldn't dare steal from the shopkeeper who's back was turned, but
> who wouldn't bat an eyelid at getting free software and taking it
> home and installing it.
> With those people in mind I would have to side with the copy
> protection schemes, no matter how irritating and frustrating for that
> smallish proportion of users who are against such things. If it
> means that copy protection may well prevent pirated software from
> become ubiquitous amongst the casual copier then it's not a bad
> thing. However, that doesn't mean we can't find something better in
> the future.
Copyright protects the legal rights of an intellectual property holder.
Copy protection punishes honest people by forcing them to swap CDs
constantly, install funky drivers, validate through the Internet, use
hardware dongles, etc. -- while people who *steal* the software remain
blissfully unaware of all this, enjoying a far greater ease of use.
Whoever said crime doesn't pay never heard of Steam.
I agree with you A.N. too many think quick killing is better than slow
moderate "milking" of the customers is usually better. hell look at
Winzip... what you figure the pay to use, vs the free user ratio is? all I
got (when not at my computer) is a nag screen to keep using it. I paid once
waaay back when like 4.x dayz...
Asgeir Nesoen enlightened us with:
> And yes, for a small, up-and-coming sim developer, with plenty of
> integrity and ideals, the major way of getting anywhere is by
> spreading their game widely. In many cases, developers have been able
> to create a living out of piracy, so to speak, yes.
> Internet is a gold mine for all those people who have ideas,
> creativity, integrity and persistence, and THOSE are the threat to
> the software house revenue, not the piracy.
> People who run corporates have never understood the nature of internet
> and regard it as a threat to revenue instead of regarding it as the
> lands of opportunity.
> ---Asgeir---
>> So you're saying that games/music need to pirated in order to become
>> widespread and succeed. Isn't that the idea of demos/radio play? Are you
>> saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?
>>>>So what should the developers do?
>>> Whatever they do, at least don't use something which will sabotage
>>> other present programs, like Nero. I also remember I tried to update
>>> my legal copy of Operation Flashpoint, which didn't work. The reason
>>> was that the update installer found a CD writer on my PC, and just
>>> stopped updating OF without any message....
>> So what are you saying Remco, that this starforce stuff can interfere
>>with CD/DVD drives and their software?
> Yes. I had to remove the demo since I couldn't use Nero anymore. Seems
> like Starforce is doing something when software is installed which can
> create virtual drives.
> Cheers!
> Remco
One thing that may have a bearing is that I don't have Nero or ***
running when playing GTR, that includes the Nero check thingy that is put in
the run section of the registry on install (WTF is that for BTW).
1. this protection is probably some infringment on your basic rights to have
a clean PC...............but get used to it, it WILL become more prevalent.
If you dont like it theres 2 solutions, jump up and down and go on a
crusade....................or go to console.
2. the protection will not stop all copying, but it will stop a hell of a
lot of the "just burn me a quick copy, mate" type of thing that the average
joe used to do. its easier for a lot of people to just buy it than find
cracks etc and/or search the net (which its not always that obvious where it
is) and d/l a gig of code. if it stops 50% of piraters then its paid for
itself. i believe it probably stops more like 75%.
3. many types of games software have problems. NFSU2 that i tryed to install
for my nephew had a major bug when recognising momo wheels. how do you think
uncle PC guru looked after that...........like a PC goose..................
and the little *** solved it himself !!
4. the number of complaints on the forums of starforce is by no means a
majority, and is no more than normal PC game problems like the stutter (of
which there appear to be many more)
5. very few PC game problems are life threatening (in this era
anyway........maybe in the future). i find it easier to just play the game
and sort the problems out as they arise.
carlos
>>> From my experience this is just like all the paranoia surrounding FILSCA
>>> ie it's a load of ***- fear of the unknown. I've had GTR for over a
>>> month. Had a few teething probs geting the game to install but this was
>>> due to not having the lastest starforce drivers. No problems since.
>> The innocent victim though is the non technical or new to PC user who
>> wouldn't have a clue about downloading drivers. Not everyone will get
>> past
>> the teething troubles. If it doesn't install out of the box it doesn't
>> work.
>> The techies and the pirates won't find it a problem. PC compatibility
>> issues
>> are great enough without adding to them. A danger is a segment of the
>> market
>> will be driven to the simple to use consoles and that is where the major
>> development will go.
> I should add that this problem doesn't exist out of the box. Obviously
> the old starforce drivers were on the original disc. I ran into problems
> as the patches were installed - one of the newer patches was obviously
> done in conjunction with the latest starforce drivers.
Hmmm, I've seen parts of it on the Net (possibly from Dave H's own
site), but a whole copy would prob'ly be kinda uh, illegal - but maybe
if you ask Dave nicely he'd point you to a hidden file on his server.
Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -24)
cheers,
uwe
--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
The point, for me at least, is the presumption of guilt, particularly
when the programmers themselves know it will make no difference. You
criminalise the honest, and have ZERO effect to the dishonest. A real
life example may be ID cards - why should I suddenly need to prove who I
am? I've lived in a country for years, why suddenly should I need to
prove it? Note that I have no problem with that need per se, but it's oh
so clear that politicians will start thinking "maybe we can check this",
or "maybe gather stats on that", and the slippery slope starts.
Same with the software. I wouldn't let anyone install things in my house
to bestow upon me the right to give them my sustom, and I sure as heck
won't with my PC. Think of me as a thief and you will not get my custom.