> "They should cane the little brown fscker" is a famous quote by who,
> uttered when and where? ;-)
Referring to Mehdi Ali, a name that will (and should) forever live on in
infamy.
Do I win a prize..? ;)
Regards, Rudy (former staff editor of the Dutch Amiga Magazine)
(GPLRank -24)
Aside from the handful of ppl. here in RAS, I haven't read anything
about significant problems installing GTR, whereas GTP which AFAIK does
not contain copy protection of an kind, caused havoc with tons of ppl.
Perhaps we should flame on about Redline Dev. and their lousy install
routine?
As far as setups and telemetry having anything to do with one another,
I was simply (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to show that a simple
and very common task such as dloading a patch or updating drivers is
far more easy to handle than trying to fix an understeer problem. I
have been using racing sims for a long time (Indy 500 & Bill Elliott
Racing for Amiga) and still haven't mastered the art of setting up a
car properly. So we need to protect the innocent from copy protection
but throw them to the wolves when it comes to making a GT car drivable
for someone who saw the title on shelf and said "Wow, cool, a racecar
game!"? :shrug:
Yes, that may be selfish, but I am the one paying out the hard earned money
so I believe I have a right to be selfish :)
-Larry
>> If it doesn't stay within it's own domain (the game), and alters my
>> system
>> or adds background tasks, then I'll be skipping over it too.
>> I purchased HL2 and I am VERY upset with how it works (Steam). I haven't
>> played it more than 15 min since I bought it.
>> I want to sell it, but because of the draconian system that's involved I
>> don't even know if that's possible.
>> -Larry
>>> Because they are putting Starforce protection drivers in it. Even the
>>> freaking demo has Starforce in it. I didn't buy HL2 because of Steam
>>> and I certainly won't buy anymore games with Starforce after buying
>>> Toca2. I classify Starforce as a Trojan. Look it up.
> Honestly Larry I think your blaming the wrong crowd. Youre aiming at the
> "easy" tgt instead of the crooks whose fault this really is. We live in
> an
> era of "lowest common denominator" sadly and its only going to get worse
> so
> Id suggest*** up the PC now before you give yourself a heart attack
> ;)
> Up till recently the internet has been the wild wild west of our
> generation.
> Do you think its now ok to go around shooting people at a poker table now
> as it was in 1880? Well thats how future generations will look back and
> see this time period of the internet IMO. I could be wrong but history
> sets a pretty good example.
> Mitch
> --
> Remove "nospam." to reply.
> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a
I used to own the movie "Antz". I don't any more. Well, not all of it at
least.
-Larry
Anyone with TRS-80 Roots can't help but remember a program called
"SuperUtility Plus".
This was THE disk-copying, protection breaking king of Utilities for this
machine.
This program had basically one purpose in life, and that was to back up or
copy so-called Copy-Protected Software.
It's Ironic that SuperUtility Plus itself was VERY heavily copy protected,
down to purposefully manufactured physical defects in the media itself.
No. It would not copy itself. Until it was hacked, of course. You just
can't toss a challange out like that and expect to win :)
-Larry
>> In the early 90s I used a Commodore Amiga. I was FAR superior to anything
>> in the PC world at the time, and the PC didn't catch up until the late
>> 90s. The Amiga should be a force in the market today but it's not. Why?
>> Two reasons: 1. the idiots who ran Commodore; 2. software piracy. Most
>> Amiga games were'nt copy protected and piracy was rampant in the Amiga
>> community.
> I was also heavily into Amiga, and remember it being heavily
> copy-protected. Trouble was, as today, the "scene" cracks everything and
> distributes it. I really can't see that changing, and anti-piracy actions
> will stop the same miniscule percentage of pirates now as they did then,
> and confusticate the same proportion of legitimate owners.
> John
Huh? DId I die and not get told about it? Figures...I'm always the
last to know....
speaking of which,...back to the topic....sortof....
THe Group C mod for F1c has a new update. Service Pak3 with a whole bunch
of mid 80's Porches. THe 956 and 962. I once saw a gentlemen racer
drive one of those off the track and into a stand of trees. The car was
totalled but he walked out unhurt. He praised the construction of the car
and stated something like he'd never race again except in that model.
So now they have the early 90 Group C, the AMerican Imsa cars and now
the studs of Endurance racing from the 80's Quite a huge list of cars and
***pits that are quite good.
The first download links are here:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
dh
It's only people that have screwed systems to begin with that even -know-
that Starforce is being installed. If you've got a half decent system that
works properly, you won't even know about Starforce. If you're a newbie
that doesn't have a decent system and runs into problems, well, that's what
technical support is for.
The system resources it uses are absolutely negligible and everything on my
system (and everyone else I know who owns Starforce games) still works
perfectly including Nero. It does have an issue with virtual drives such as
the one Nero uses but it gives the user plenty of warning and there are
workarounds posted all over the place. Installing MS Office or Adobe
Acrobat has more of an impact on your system's speed.
I can't believe the intelligent people of this group have fallen for all of
the anti-Starforce propaganda spread around the net by all of the
pirate-kiddies who still haven't found a decent way to beat Starforce.
I will agree with one thing though, there's some very technically savvy
people around here who are complete idiots when it comes to PCs. :-\
Well, I just recorded a DVD in Nero 6.6.0.3 after playing GTR - I guess my
copy of Nero must be 'special'
> So what should the developers do? Just forget copy protection and say
> "OK crackers, you've won. We aren't going to copy protect our software
> because it's not worth the hassle."
> In the early 90s I used a Commodore Amiga. I was FAR superior to
> anything in the PC world at the time, and the PC didn't catch up until
> the late 90s. The Amiga should be a force in the market today but it's
> not. Why? Two reasons: 1. the idiots who ran Commodore; 2. software
> piracy. Most Amiga games were'nt copy protected and piracy was rampant
> in the Amiga community.
> Of course this isn't going to happen to the PC but you get my point.
> Piracy is a real threat and must be addressed by software developers
> somehow. Do you really think they like having to spend their development
> time writing copy protection into their software?
Until some form of anti-piracy measure can be thought up that works
outside of the code that is left on a user's machine it's always going
to be crackable very, very quickly.
So with anti-piracy measures not really providing a working solution
what does that leave? Unless the games makers can provide something
more than just the game that is worth having they are not going to stop
piracy from happening. Perhaps it is time for games companies to look
at other ways of encouraging users to purchase their games rather than
just trying to discourage them from copying them.
Putting that to one side, though. As others have already stated, those
that are honest will most likely buy the games anyway, regardless of
copy protection. As for the habitual pirateers? They're going to keep
doing what they do.
This leaves those who are somewhere in between. Those who, if the
opportunity of free software were put before them, may well say yes.
How many are in that number is too difficult to quantify, though I would
imagine it is quite large. I know of many, many users who wouldn't
think twice about the ramifications of someone giving them a free piece
of software on cd. Who wouldn't even consider that they were doing
anything illegal or dishonest. Ordinary citizens who wouldn't dare
steal from the shopkeeper who's back was turned, but who wouldn't bat an
eyelid at getting free software and taking it home and installing it.
With those people in mind I would have to side with the copy protection
schemes, no matter how irritating and frustrating for that smallish
proportion of users who are against such things. If it means that copy
protection may well prevent pirated software from become ubiquitous
amongst the casual copier then it's not a bad thing. However, that
doesn't mean we can't find something better in the future.
--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
If you could 'BACKUP' your GTR disc...THEN I'd think it's special. :)
dave henrie
> The system resources it uses are absolutely negligible and everything on my
> system (and everyone else I know who owns Starforce games) still works
> perfectly including Nero. It does have an issue with virtual drives such as
> the one Nero uses but it gives the user plenty of warning and there are
The point is that some people just think that this kind of copy-protection
is going too far. I'm one of them and I won't be buying GTR because of it.
Think about it: it doesn't work, makes the game more expensive, leaves me
without the possibility of a backup copy, installs software which interferes
with virtual drives. How can anyone in his right mind think this is a good
idea?
-peter
We have to remember: The sim developers probably hate the idea of using
starforce to protect their game, because:
1) The software house buys the game from a developer, and the developer
gets a sum of money for this, and in a few cases, get a sum per copy
sold, but I would think that this is substantial in most cases
2) The developer would like to see as many as possible enjoying his/her
game/sim, since she/he knows that the spin-off effect of a massively
used sim is huge, and will pay dividends in due time.
This discussion is 100% analog to the music industry copy protecting
their "cds". Why are they using such a thing? It is because they want to
defend their huge profit and ability to shape the market through PR
campaigns instead of founding a purchase in quality, craftsmanship and
artistry. The artists are bought completely these days, and see little
or nothing of the astronomical profit of the record companies.
We will see more and more independant game/sim developers since the
software houses are exploiting the market and not giving it back to the
developers. Just like the music industry. Think of all the talent and
ideas out there not being used or developed just because a software
house or a record company think they won't pay dividends for *them*!
---Asgeir---
<snip>
> Referring to Mehdi Ali, a name that will (and should) forever live on in
> infamy.
> Do I win a prize..? ;)
Talking of the Deathbed Vigil video, does anyone have a digital copy?
My old VCR is acting up and I have no means of converting analog video
to digital formats.
Cheers & WD,
uwe
--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
>>>So what should the developers do?
>> Whatever they do, at least don't use something which will sabotage
>> other present programs, like Nero. I also remember I tried to update
>> my legal copy of Operation Flashpoint, which didn't work. The reason
>> was that the update installer found a CD writer on my PC, and just
>> stopped updating OF without any message....
> So what are you saying Remco, that this starforce stuff can interfere
>with CD/DVD drives and their software?
Cheers!
Remco
