tracks yet but bought it just out of sheer support for Dave who has
brought us more than your little whining self has ever or will ever.
Lead follow or die.
PAPA DOC
Lead follow or die.
PAPA DOC
PAPA DOC
>> > Let me say that If Dave Noonan charged for the tracks he's made I'd look
>at
>> > them like products, I see conversion as a service. If you made the new
>great
>> > bikini, then that's a product, if you made the preexisting bikini's look
>> > good on 300 pound women, that's a service. (Well maybe.. :) ) So I
>would
>> > expect to pay you if I thought your service was warranted for the price.
>> > Again I'm just more interested if whether I want to feel comfortable
>with
>> > buying it, and Dave doesn't want to say anything. I never buy anything
>> > without knowing what I'm paying for. I didn't buy Nascar 3, because it
>> > seemed to me they threw together a new car set and better sound and a
>new
>> > rasterizer. I'm not paying 40 bucks fir that.
>> So if that's what you are more interested in, try the demo converter...
>> that's what it's there for. If you like it, buy the full converter, if
>not
>> then don't buy it. It's really very simple.
>> Oh... and by the way Noonan's converter is a product, not a
>> service. Using your bikini example... Say I developed a small home-based
>> tool that could take a preexisting bikini and modify ("convert") it to
>> look good on obese women. This bikini converter would be my product which
>> I could sell to anyone. It takes a bikini which the consumer already
>bought
>> and converts it to make them look good in it and feel good about themself.
>> Just like Noonan's track converter takes an existing track from a product
>> you purchased and converts it to work in another racing title which you
>also
>> purchased. It's no different from the millions of products out there that
>> claim to improve something you already own.
>> BTW, don't run with the bikini idea... you'll end up homeless in the long
>> run... ;-)
>> Dave
> >To***you off twit.
> Wasn't it actually '***'? Still confused about the difference between
> twit and ***... anyway, we probably mean the same.
> Andre
--
Chuck Kandler
A man is no less a Slave just because he is
allowed to choose a new Master every four years.
Registered Linux User #180746
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Colin Harris
Colin Harris in N3/VROC
ICQ 25485061
Remove "your knickers" to reply
The toilet bowl?
If so, then only because you have made it so. You originally commented
that you "don't pay for services unless you know how much they're
doing for you". Of course that is your choice, and whether or not to
buy is your choice, but given that you get free tracks, a converter
that converts some for free and already have all the products in
question, the notion that you don't know what you're getting is
somewhat bizarre.
John
> --
> Colin Harris
> Colin Harris in N3/VROC
> ICQ 25485061
> Remove "your knickers" to reply
> > A *** is that hole you're aiming for late at night in a drunken stupor.
> The toilet bowl?
Your right to deem it not worth your purchasing Dave's converter does
NOT change his right to charge whatever he wants for it.
Frankly, I don't see what all this fuss is about, unless economic
anarchy is the end and stealing software is the means.
73 K
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
somebody commented something by "roflol" after copying tens of lines
of the original article. This was not the worst case: sometimes you
can see hundreds of lines copied and commentented by a sole "ROFL".
I suggest that those writers would make the laughing and rolling on
their floors privately, without bothering our very(!) international
and very(!) wide spread newsgroup with their personal rolling problems!
Arto
> >I'm not saying the worth of the tracks isn't there, but since he didn't
> >really make the tracks, I'm looking at what I'm paying him as pay for
> >service. I'm paying him for making the tracks available, not for making
the
> >tracks.
> He made a converter to create the tracks, and he also made several
> actual new tracks - where's the difference? If he charged for the
> tracks he made would that make things okay?
> John
> Your right to deem it not worth your purchasing Dave's converter does
> NOT change his right to charge whatever he wants for it.
> Frankly, I don't see what all this fuss is about, unless economic
> anarchy is the end and stealing software is the means.
> 73 K
> > My second part was just referring to other add-on markers so in
> reality it
> > really doesn't concern me.
> > as for the first part, it's still up to me to decide what I do and
> don't
> > want to pay for. For some reason, me saying that turned into some
> outrageous
> > thread because others have different standards of buying things.
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Why is it that if someone posts anything here the least bit challenging
people jump to the most negative conclusion?
people jumped to the conclusion that I was saying that Dave didn't have the
right to charge for it, and that Dave is some sort of capitalistic pig. That
really wasn't what I was saying. And then I have to try to best defend
myself, and after awhile it's hard not to get a little angry and become
somewhat rhetorical.
> >as for the first part, it's still up to me to decide what I do and don't
> >want to pay for. For some reason, me saying that turned into some
outrageous
> >thread because others have different standards of buying things.
> If so, then only because you have made it so. You originally commented
> that you "don't pay for services unless you know how much they're
> doing for you". Of course that is your choice, and whether or not to
> buy is your choice, but given that you get free tracks, a converter
> that converts some for free and already have all the products in
> question, the notion that you don't know what you're getting is
> somewhat bizarre.
> John
I was trying to get more information out of the group to make a judgment as
you indicated. I agree with everything you said.
> PAPA DOC
> >I had assumed that Noonan made a process that converts the track, he
> >manually converted the tracks and then automated that process so that he
> >wouldn't have to come to all our houses and manually convert them. Since
> >this is almost considered a macro of sorts, it's automating his service.
If
> >his program could convert any track that works in N2 to work with N3,
> >without the programs previous knowledge of the track, this would then be
a
> >product.
> >> > Let me say that If Dave Noonan charged for the tracks he's made I'd
look
> >at
> >> > them like products, I see conversion as a service. If you made the
new
> >great
> >> > bikini, then that's a product, if you made the preexisting bikini's
look
> >> > good on 300 pound women, that's a service. (Well maybe.. :) ) So I
> >would
> >> > expect to pay you if I thought your service was warranted for the
price.
> >> > Again I'm just more interested if whether I want to feel comfortable
> >with
> >> > buying it, and Dave doesn't want to say anything. I never buy
anything
> >> > without knowing what I'm paying for. I didn't buy Nascar 3, because
it
> >> > seemed to me they threw together a new car set and better sound and a
> >new
> >> > rasterizer. I'm not paying 40 bucks fir that.
> >> So if that's what you are more interested in, try the demo converter...
> >> that's what it's there for. If you like it, buy the full converter, if
> >not
> >> then don't buy it. It's really very simple.
> >> Oh... and by the way Noonan's converter is a product, not a
> >> service. Using your bikini example... Say I developed a small
home-based
> >> tool that could take a preexisting bikini and modify ("convert") it to
> >> look good on obese women. This bikini converter would be my product
which
> >> I could sell to anyone. It takes a bikini which the consumer already
> >bought
> >> and converts it to make them look good in it and feel good about
themself.
> >> Just like Noonan's track converter takes an existing track from a
product
> >> you purchased and converts it to work in another racing title which you
> >also
> >> purchased. It's no different from the millions of products out there
that
> >> claim to improve something you already own.
> >> BTW, don't run with the bikini idea... you'll end up homeless in the
long
> >> run... ;-)
> >> Dave
My original past was saying that I didn't think Dave was likely to come out
and say why he would charge for his converts (in response to another's
post), I also questioned why Dave wouldn't want to at least give a discount
to those who make products for free that he uses.
Really that second part, I don't have the right to challenge his morals, I
didn't mean to, but it came across that way, I was actually hoping Dave
might read that and think it was a good idea.
That was all well and good, but then others decided to bring this thread to
another level. While I tried to just reiterate that fact that more than
anything else I was just curious about what went into the product
development, but perhaps went about it in a fairly poor way. So then people
were trying to say that they didn't agree with how I decide on purchasing
software
so that's where we are... ok on to your post:
1) Yes I know what the converter does, I used one in ICR2 once.
ok, there really isn't much of a sticking point. The point is that I didn't
have enough information on what he had put into the product. Skills, time or
knowledge. I was curious about that, and actually didn't have anything to do
with my point, but somehow some ones post got me into talking about whether
I would buy it, without me noticing that they switched the topic. Since I
don't own the tracks to convert, I don't see why that is relevant. Chalk
that up to me just trying to defend dozens of posts that totally mistook my
meaning.
> >that's not how it works? I can't base my purchase of a product on
standards
> >that I choose?
> >> > At what point did I say he didn't have the right to do so?At what
point
> >did
> >> > I say he had to justify it? I definitely said, that "I'd Just like to
> >know"
> >> > and that "I'd (personally) feel much better" in that I would be more
> >> > willing to buy a product if I knew how much time he put into it, if
only
> >to
> >> > support his work.
> >> That's not how it works. If I'm going to slap together a tool that
> >simplifies
> >> modifying AI, track lists, drivers, etc. (hmm, I heard that before) and
it
> >> is amazingly helpful to the users, I'll charge you what it is worth to
YOU
> >> and not necessarily what it cost to make the tool.
> I don't think that's quite what he said...
> Lemme ask you a question. You obviously know WHAT the converter does.
You're
> intelligent enough for that. You also know what the price is. Is your
> sticking point the fact that there IS a charge(which you don't think it's
> worth), or that Dave himself hasn't told you WHY he's charging what he is.
I
> can understand the first scenario, but not the second. Do you own a car?
If
> so, did you ask the company WHY they charge what they charge? Not likely.
You
> look at the choices, and if you like something that fits into your budget,
you
> buy it. I personally don't think ANY car is worth more than about $5000,
but
> then again, I can't build my own...<G>
> This isn't a flame, but it probably sounds like one. I'm just trying to
> understand it more from your point of view...
> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPL hcp. +70.45
> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.