rec.autos.simulators

by **Todd Sorense** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Gee, my guess is he sells it because he wants to make money.

--
Todd S.

> >We are all in this for fun. Why do you sell your converters?

> Well I'm not Mr Noonan, but I am a Dave, so I'll have a go at
> answering. I'd guess that DN considers that the amount of work he's put
> in to his program is such that it's reasonable to expect people to pay
> for it. Obviously we'd all love it if it were free, but I really don't
> think the cost is excessive, and he's entirely within his rights, both
> legally and morally, to do what he does.

> >I mean I know they are yours and you have the right to but why? I
> >have them but I was just curious. Do you have a business lisence?

> Business licence? Why does he need that? He's selling as a sole trader,
> not a limited company. How he handles his income is between him and the
> Inland Revenue.

> --
> David. (GPLRank handicap: +8.85)
> "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
> really."
> (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I too doubt Dave himself will answer it. But Ned and Jan at the Pits
probably are as much to blame as anyone.
They have an answer, perhaps Goy can fill you in.
dave henrie

by **bph..** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

My guess is that Todd hit it, to make money. And I have more than
gotten my money's worth of enjoyment from the converter. And what the
heck are you talking about, "the one thing he does"? There is a free
demo of the converter and then there is Brands Hatch, O-ring and Imola
et al. I think all done by Mr. Noonan and provided free to the gpl
world. Hope you and jason will go off in search of another windmill.

> I've found Dave Never has the guts to answer this question. If he'd
at least
> answer the question I'd feel much better. To me it's lame that so many
> people put time into putting out free programs that obviously uses,
and then
> charges them for the one thing he does, for which I have no idea how
much
> time it really takes him.

> I'd just like to know.

> > We are all in this for fun. Why do you sell your converters? I
mean I
> > know they are yours and you have the right to but why? I have them
but
> > I was just curious. Do you have a business lisence? Please I only
> > want Dave Noonon to respond. No one else.

> > Jason

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Peter Hoope** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Who cares why he charges for it. All I know is that 15 quid is very little
to pay for something that has given such a lot of enjoyment.
Long may he continue to develop stuff for this sim... charging for them or
not...

Regards

Peter Hooper

> I've found Dave Never has the guts to answer this question. If he'd at
least
> answer the question I'd feel much better. To me it's lame that so many
> people put time into putting out free programs that obviously uses, and
then
> charges them for the one thing he does, for which I have no idea how much
> time it really takes him.

> I'd just like to know.

> > We are all in this for fun. Why do you sell your converters? I mean I
> > know they are yours and you have the right to but why? I have them but
> > I was just curious. Do you have a business lisence? Please I only
> > want Dave Noonon to respond. No one else.

> > Jason

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

by **Andre Warrin** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Ding ding ding! You just won 1 (one) FREE copy of the converter!
Congratulations! :)

Andre

>--
>Todd S.

>> >We are all in this for fun. Why do you sell your converters?

>> Well I'm not Mr Noonan, but I am a Dave, so I'll have a go at
>> answering. I'd guess that DN considers that the amount of work he's put
>> in to his program is such that it's reasonable to expect people to pay
>> for it. Obviously we'd all love it if it were free, but I really don't
>> think the cost is excessive, and he's entirely within his rights, both
>> legally and morally, to do what he does.

>> >I mean I know they are yours and you have the right to but why? I
>> >have them but I was just curious. Do you have a business lisence?

>> Business licence? Why does he need that? He's selling as a sole trader,
>> not a limited company. How he handles his income is between him and the
>> Inland Revenue.

>> --
>> David. (GPLRank handicap: +8.85)
>> "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
>> really."
>> (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

by **m.seer** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

*** off man. You know the hell what I meant.

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

It's a simple concept. Supply and demand. Dave supplies the only converter
in town. If you want it, then you buy it. Last time I checked, no one was
holding a gun to anyone's head. If you prefer to support only those who
produce their add-ons for free, then by all means do it. I am not saying if
it is right or wrong to charge for the converter. Noonan has made a
decision that the time he spent on the converter was worth something to him,
and so he would like to earn some money. He has also released free add-ons.
Others have decided that their work is a simple matter of passion for the
sim, or a fun hobby, and have decided to give it away for free. Why does
everyone suddenly want to bully Dave Noonan to force their values onto him?
How do we know he uses any software tools other than his own?

Stephen

> I've found Dave Never has the guts to answer this question. If he'd at
least
> answer the question I'd feel much better. To me it's lame that so many
> people put time into putting out free programs that obviously uses, and
then
> charges them for the one thing he does, for which I have no idea how much
> time it really takes him.

> I'd just like to know.

> > We are all in this for fun. Why do you sell your converters? I mean I
> > know they are yours and you have the right to but why? I have them but
> > I was just curious. Do you have a business lisence? Please I only
> > want Dave Noonon to respond. No one else.

> > Jason

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

by **ymenar** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye..."
"Look Dave, I can see your're really upset about this"

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Goy Larse** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> I too doubt Dave himself will answer it. But Ned and Jan at the Pits
> probably are as much to blame as anyone.
> They have an answer, perhaps Goy can fill you in.

Well, here goes

DN's converters has little to do with "The Pits" as such, but the
original ICR2->N2 converter was distributed mostly through us, with a
discount as Jan felt DN charged a little too much for it at the time,
but the converters are Dave's work as such, and what he chooses to do
with them is up to him

Having said that, and this is to the original poster, David Noonan, or
others who chooses to do the same for that matter, don't have to justify
charging for their work, he provides a product and it's up to each and
every one if you want it or not, and in DN's case, he has done so much
for the community over the years and if he can get something back and
still provide something for a good value, then all the better

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

by **Goy Larse** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> I've found Dave Never has the guts to answer this question. If he'd at least
> answer the question I'd feel much better. To me it's lame that so many
> people put time into putting out free programs that obviously uses, and then
> charges them for the one thing he does, for which I have no idea how much
> time it really takes him.

Did you even read this message before you sent it out ?

David have put more into the community than most people, I have no idea
how long it took him to create the converter, and it don't really matter
to me, there's also this thing about being able to do something that few
others can do, that has to be worth something as well don't you think,
and he don't charge for the *one* thing he does, if you read up on all
the stuff he has done over the years you will find that most of his
stuff is free, much of what he has done isn't released as a "DN product"
at "The Pits", it's just incorporated into the other stuff, like the
TPTCC patch or whatever, so saying that he charges for the *one* thing
he does is plain wrong

Saying that he don't have guts only shows have little you know about
him, whether or not he chooses to come to this NG and defend himself,
why on earth he should have to in the first place is beyond me, has
nothing to do with guts, and I'm glad to see that the majority of those
that have chosen to voice their opinion on this whole converter issue
seems to understand that

I don't know why I even bother to argue over this issue anymore

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

by **Kevin Gavit** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> > I've found Dave Never has the guts to answer this question. If he'd at
least
> > answer the question I'd feel much better. To me it's lame that so many
> > people put time into putting out free programs that obviously uses, and
then
> > charges them for the one thing he does, for which I have no idea how
much
> > time it really takes him.

> Did you even read this message before you sent it out ?

> David have put more into the community than most people, I have no idea
> how long it took him to create the converter, and it don't really matter
> to me, there's also this thing about being able to do something that few
> others can do, that has to be worth something as well don't you think,
> and he don't charge for the *one* thing he does, if you read up on all
> the stuff he has done over the years you will find that most of his
> stuff is free, much of what he has done isn't released as a "DN product"
> at "The Pits", it's just incorporated into the other stuff, like the
> TPTCC patch or whatever, so saying that he charges for the *one* thing
> he does is plain wrong

> Saying that he don't have guts only shows have little you know about
> him, whether or not he chooses to come to this NG and defend himself,
> why on earth he should have to in the first place is beyond me, has
> nothing to do with guts, and I'm glad to see that the majority of those
> that have chosen to voice their opinion on this whole converter issue
> seems to understand that

> I don't know why I even bother to argue over this issue anymore

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

I would guess it has something to do with a difficulty in suffering fools
gladly.

by **Goy Larse** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> I would guess it has something to do with a difficulty in suffering fools
> gladly.

Got me there mate, in other words, what ? :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

by **SKur** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

If the only payment addon suppliers were to receive, was the company of some of
the people i see in here.....
GPL woulda died long ago...

If there is no return on the investment of your effort and time, then why
bother? I'd be willing to bet Dave doesn't even get much time to enjoy the work
he has done. So he doesn't even get that satisfaction.

Ask Bill why he charged ya for win98, or Intel/AMD why they charged ya for that
last cpu
or STFU

Martyn_D

> I've found Dave Never has the guts to answer this question. If he'd at least
> answer the question I'd feel much better. To me it's lame that so many
> people put time into putting out free programs that obviously uses, and then
> charges them for the one thing he does, for which I have no idea how much
> time it really takes him.

> I'd just like to know.

> > We are all in this for fun. Why do you sell your converters? I mean I
> > know they are yours and you have the right to but why? I have them but
> > I was just curious. Do you have a business lisence? Please I only
> > want Dave Noonon to respond. No one else.

> > Jason

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

by **Ace** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

What a load of bollocks!!! If YOU created a program, YOU have the right to
charge for it. Some don't, but some do, and it's up to them, the people who
put in the time and hard work,coding, debugging, tweaking, etc.
They don't have to justify it to every ***wit who wants something for
nothing. Really, we should consider ourselves lucky when we can have things
like new tracks, carsets, graphics, whatever, for free. Or are people going
to start asking why Papy think they can charge for their games?
--
-Ace-
(GPLRank +1.83)

by **Kai Fulle** » Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Yeah, I personally am not trying to say that he HAS to explain himself, but
I might be more inclined to buy it myself if he gave us reasoning for the
purchase price.

I have no problem paying for a Papy Nascar because I know they make their
living off of it and spend 24 hour days working on it. If it only took them
2 weeks to make I wouldn't feel comfortable paying 40 bucks for it.
(Therefore no buy on N3 or 99)

Dave has the right to charge what he wants, as long as he has legal right to
do so. And I have no interest is challenging his right to do so. I'm just
saying I'd like to know, and don't understand why Dave is so reluctant to
speak on the matter.

> > I too doubt Dave himself will answer it. But Ned and Jan at the Pits
> > probably are as much to blame as anyone.
> > They have an answer, perhaps Goy can fill you in.

> Well, here goes

> DN's converters has little to do with "The Pits" as such, but the
> original ICR2->N2 converter was distributed mostly through us, with a
> discount as Jan felt DN charged a little too much for it at the time,
> but the converters are Dave's work as such, and what he chooses to do
> with them is up to him

> Having said that, and this is to the original poster, David Noonan, or
> others who chooses to do the same for that matter, don't have to justify
> charging for their work, he provides a product and it's up to each and
> every one if you want it or not, and in DN's case, he has done so much
> for the community over the years and if he can get something back and
> still provide something for a good value, then all the better

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

> * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
> "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

rec.autos.simulators

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?

DN why do u sell your converters?