rec.autos.simulators

I finally got my T2 wheel about 4 days ago. I expected my performance
to rocket once I get used to it, but no way. Does anyone have hints?
I had downloaded the car setup and HL replay for Monza from Sim Racing
News, the guy did 1:21.620 with it, no helps. I used to do a low 1:25
with it using my previous setup: accel/brakes with my TM FCS and
keyboard steering. Now I have played about 15 hours with the T2 and
cannot get the hang of it. The best I can do is a high 1:26 with
steering help and opposite lock.

With SH the game seems more playable, though IMHO it is not really SH
as I understand it should only be active if I don't get into a bend.
The SH as currently implemented works on the shole track and I feel
like I'm driving on rails.
OTOH without SH , though I feel _I_ am in control of the car, I can't
seem to get into a bend. I have closely watched the posted HL replay,
and am using the exact same setup (the guy did not use SH either).
Using the same entry speeds and entry points I can't get into chicanes
the way the other guy did. Then I started copying the computer cars,
same thing. I understand computer cars might (and I guess do) have
their own driving algorythms, but nothing comes close.
The car terribly understeers. I have tried to use different lock
angles, it seems a bit better at the highest one (35 deg.). Yet before
Rettifilo, Roggia and Vialone I have to brake to 90- kmh or two things
happen: either the car refuses to steer at all and I get on the grass
in a straight line or if I try to steer tiny bit earlier I cut through
the left bumps. This happens also with the default GP2 Monza setup,
only two possible paths through the chicanes: either straight into the
grass or a direct line into the corner cutting the bumps and grass
behind it.

I am begginning to think that computer-controlled cars all use
steering help to get so tightly through the chicanes.

Also I noticed that when I use no SH, even if I brake down to 80 kmh
to tightly go through the chicanes, my wheels scream all the way, a
thing I did not notice in other people replays  and when viewing
computer controlled cars.

What am I doing wrong? I would really like to stop using SH, as I
don't see why I should use the wide path in Lesmos and Parabolica as
the game thinks I should.

Maybe it is related to the framerate? I have a P-120/32MB/Lightspeed
128 (speed: 233 and video speed 444 according to gp2log.txt). If I
turn all details on I get 9 fps and with only the necessary stuff I
get 23 fps. I always run at the 'recommended fps'. But I haven't
noticed any difference in controllability when running at 9 or 23 fps,
it all seems to run at the same smoothness.

Would an ACM-like card help? My T2 is currently connected to my AWE32,
but I haven't noticed any of the symptoms like drift and stuff. Maybe
the AWE32 game port isn't fast enough to process the quick change of
position of the wheel? Would steering improve if I buy a dedicated
game card?

Thanks for bearing with me. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Karim

Karrim, I had to install a dedicated  game card (CH3) before I could
drive with my T2. I was using my SB16 gameport prevoiusly. It works
great now....I'm still not a fast driver but I'm having more fun.

<snip>

These may give a clue. It is possible that you are turning the wheel
_too_ much. As a result, the wheels are at too great an angle to the
direction of travel and can't get any grip. Turning the wheels _less_
might be better.

Try setting the max lock to about 20 degrees, the low sensitivity
setting to 25% and reduce with speed to 50%. You will eventually want
to reduce the low sensitivity setting, but 25% is a good setting to
start with.

Also make sure that the front wheels aren't locked due to excessive
braking when you start turning them. Try braking very early so that
you are coasting into the corner.

Don't be too disappointed if it takes quite a while to get down to a
1:21 at Monza. This sim is _very_ realistic and consequently just a
touch hard!

Even after a _lot_ of practice, quick laps at Monza aren't easy. I
have a sub 1:23 lap at Silverstone and a sub 1:09 lap at TI Aida, but
can't break the 1:22 barrier at Monza :(

Stick with no steering help. The sim is much more realistic without
it.

Try using the 23fps settings and then reducing the actual framerate to
21.x. This will help keep the framerate smooth. Also, you probably
want to have the trackside details set to low for Monza as all those
trees take a _lot_ of CPU power to shift.

Higher framerates are preferable to increased "eye candy". Makes it
much easier to judge braking points.

Unlikely. Dedicated game cards are a rip off unless you have a real
problem with your existing card.

No problem. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Richard

 RW> Try setting the max lock to about 20 degrees, the low sensitivity
 RW> setting to 25% and reduce with speed to 50%. You will eventually want=
 to
 RW> reduce the low sensitivity setting, but 25% is a good setting to start
 RW> with.

I *have* to comment on this one :)

[For steering]

    'low sensivity 25%'

This means that *all* steering action takes place in a narrow 25% span. Why=
 making the wheel so sensitive? Use close to 100% here.

    'reduce with speed 50%'

This means that steering is sensitive when driving slow and not sensitive=
 when driving fast. Why drive around with varying steering sensitivity? It'=
s a mess. Use close to 0% here.

With these directions a 'max lock' of 10-12 degrees is sufficient to get yo=
u round all tracks.

But then again: this might only apply to my computer / Wheel&Pedal setup.=
 Argh!

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Henrik Hjortnaes
      AMIGA
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kev

bl00d on Hawaii

Try setting the "reduce with speed" value to zero (or close to zero).

Regards

Pekka

I've noted all the varying opinions on the ACM gamecard here. He's my
experience.

I've been using the TM ACM gamecards for several years now, and was
only half convinced they were of any *significant* advantage ..until
GP2.

Because of an initial problem setting up the ACM when co-existing with
a SB16/32 PnP sound card on earlier Pentium PnP motherboards, I was
initially using the SB (genuine) gameport to connect my T2 controls in
order to play GP2.

I found the tendency for the car to lose the back end so easily,
ridiculously arcadish and overly sensitive, so much so that I was
gonna' shelve GP2.

I mustered up the enthusiasm to go through the ACM installation
routine under Windows95 (y'know physical removal of the SBPnP etc)
and connected up my T2 to the ACM. After calibrating with TMS, I
couldn't believe the difference in the car's handling. Same setup,
same track, same controls, same driver.

For my 2 bob's worth, it is apparent that (techno mumbo jumbo aside)
the game is receiving the input from the T2 much more frequently or
accurately via the ACM than it did via the SB port. Previously, by the
time the car had responded to the same input on the SB port..it was
all over..the rear end was passing the front..not so with the ACM...it
allowed immediate & effective corrective action, and most importantly,
with the same feeling to the senses as best as a PC simulation can
provide as a real performance vehicle gives in this situation when
breaking traction with the rear wheels.

After this experience, I'm absolutely convinced of their worth. After
all, at USD$25-ea (Chips & Bits), it isn't exactly a 'King's ransom'
is it? Try it and see for yourself. I think you'll be glad you did.

                       *

                        *
                       *  Rene` Descartes (1596-1650)

Sorry, but you've got this one wrong! What it means is that the
_first_ 25% of steering movement is progressive, making it less
sensitive. The remaining 75% of movement results in steering that is
directly related to the movement of the wheel.

Check the manual (page 19, UK edition)

Because 1 degree of movement at 300 kph results in 3 times as much
lateral movement than 1 degree at 100 kph within the reaction times of
a person.  _Most_ people will find themselves weaving down the
straights with a zero reduce with speed setting. It _is_ perfectly
possible to driver without it, but it becomes harder to pull out from
the slipstream of a car without going onto the grass.

Agreed. I ran for quite a time with 13 degrees of lock and didn't have
any trouble getting round corners. However, since switching to 20
degrees, it is far less tiring as I don't have to move the wheel so
far!

:-)

Cheers,
Richard

 >>    'low sensivity 25%'

 >> This means that *all* steering action takes place in a narrow 25% span.
 >> Why making the wheel so sensitive? Use close to 100% here.

 RW> Sorry, but you've got this one wrong!

Yes, after some testing, i have to admit that. Sorry!

 RW> What it means is that the _first_
 RW> 25% of steering movement is progressive, making it less sensitive. The
 RW> remaining 75% of movement results in steering that is directly related
 RW> to the movement of the wheel.

The difference between my values and yours are not huge on my W&P unit, but=
 i have to admit that your settings are very drivable indeed! Thanks for sh=
aring.

 >>    'reduce with speed 50%'

 RW> with a zero reduce with speed setting. It _is_ perfectly possible to
 RW> driver without it, but it becomes harder to pull out from the slipstre=
am
 RW> of a car without going onto the grass.

Yes, my setting are a bit unforgiving. I did a couple of races with your va=
lues and again: my old setting is almost too hazardous.

 >> With these directions a 'max lock' of 10-12 degrees is sufficient to ge=
t
 >> you round all tracks.

 RW> Agreed. I ran for quite a time with 13 degrees of lock and didn't have
 RW> any trouble getting round corners. However, since switching to 20
 RW> degrees, it is far less tiring as I don't have to move the wheel so fa=
r!

Whimp! ;-) Look at Alesi and the others. They very often drive with full lo=
ck (around -+135 degrees).

 >> But then again: this might only apply to my computer / Wheel&Pedal setu=
p.
 >> Argh!

 RW> :-)

Well, not quite.

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Henrik Hjortnaes
      AMIGA
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the answer Keiron. After reading your post I started
calling all stores in town susceptible to carry the ACM. None had it,
and paying $70 extra to Fedex for a shipment from the US is a bit too
much. Some stores had the CH and the Gravis gamecards. Since I still
have the Gravis Ultrasound Classic gathering dust in my drawer, I
thought 'no more hightech but too proprietary hardware' and wetn for
the CH Gamecard 3 Automatic ($35 in Moscow).
Dunno, either the ACM is better than the CH or my old gameport on the
AWE32 is better than the one on your SB16PnP, but I didn't notice any
real difference.... I still had to brake to about 110 kmh to enter a
chicane at Monza. Since the last thing I want is race with SH, I
resorted to stupidly do lap after lap and see if I can come up with
new ideas...
And finally I got it. I noticed that when steering into a chicane my
front wheels were screaming and smoking a bit too much, and if I
released the wheel a bit during the turn I actually turned better. So
I understood my previous assumption that I needed a higher lock angle
to turn better was completely wrong. Buy reducing it from 35 deg. to
28 I gained 3 _seconds_ on the very first timed lap! And I spent so
much time fine tuning the front of my car in the Advanced menu... :)
Williams is wrong, it's not the car, it's the driver who sucks :)
I don't think I could ever get close to the 1:21-1:22 times I have
seen posted for Monza, but I guess I could win a couple of seconds
more fiddling with the car controls instead of the setup...

Karim

Glad to be of help!

<bg>

I increased the skid volume setting a couple of days ago & reduced the
engine noise as well. I quickly realised that I was making the front
tyres work too hard & was turning them too far :(  I've now reduced the
max lock to 18 degrees & will probably reduce it down to about 15 soon,
so thanks to you as well!

BTW, increasing the skid volume & reducing the engine noise is a great
tip I got from someone else. The increased awareness of what is happening
to the tyres helps make up a little for the lack of the "seat of the
pants" feedback that real drivers get.

I just love watching in car shots which show the drivers hands & feet at
work. Whatever the racing format I am always so amazed at the sheer speed
at which they can move from full lock to full lock. Alesi, Schumacher &
Villeneuve are all great examples of this in F1, but I find the antics of
the touring car drivers even better. I was watching some Australian
Touring Car action last week and the way the wheel jumped about when they
hit the kerbs was just incredible.

Cheers,
Richard