rec.autos.simulators

After getting pole for The Belgian Grand Prix and Asked how did he get to
know the track.. JV answered that..

        Although it may seem childish i learned it from a video game

Is he referring to GP2????
        Cause if he did isn't that enough proof for the Best simulator
award or something??

P.S. Have Microprose released any information about any add-ons or
updates to make the game more like they promised they would i.e. Weather,
Debris that you run into and not over, Marshalls calling the shots such
as Red flags and that Pit to car radio thing???

        Thanks for your Help    

        Santosh

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:29:59 -0700, Santosh Bhat

Tony

'This may sound silly, but I have being playing a (the?) video game for about
30 minutes and it gave me a real feel for the track, but that's all'

I take that as a thumbs up for the course design, but a big thumbs down for
the way the car 'handled'. Lets face it, if anyone knows what a car should
feel and react like as it powers through a turn at 150 - 200mph it would be
these guys. He may have had fun with the car setup, but obviously the video
game does not drive very realistic at all. So how could it possibly deserve
the title of Best Simulator. How about Best Game With Really Cool Tracks, but
no realism what so ever award!

I still can not get over the 9 second pitstop thing to replace both front and
rear wings AND replace the broken front axel and replace the wheel.

Wow! What a realistic simulator!

Ashraf

---
DISCLAIMER: My comments are my own and not necessarily those of my employer
            OR my service provider.

**************************************************************************
Ashraf Ghebranious

"If it takes only one person to suppress your religion, then it cant be
much of a religion then can it?" - me

To find out more about the cult that is Scientology, subscribe to
ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY. Dont get me wrong, these people are dangerous!

"Jesus woman! I dont give a ***!"  Rhett Butler, slightly paraphrased
**************************************************************************

: 'This may sound silly, but I have being playing a (the?) video game for about
: 30 minutes and it gave me a real feel for the track, but that's all'
:
: I take that as a thumbs up for the course design, but a big thumbs down for
: feel and react like as it powers through a turn at 150 - 200mph it would be
: these guys. He may have had fun with the car setup, but obviously the video
: game does not drive very realistic at all. So how could it possibly deserve
: the title of Best Simulator. How about Best Game With Really Cool Tracks, but
: no realism what so ever award!
in the eyes of a real driver, NO video game will EVER feel realistic,
unless it blows wind on you, pulls g's and shakes, not to mention force
feedback steering etc.  The best that any video game can possibly do is
to offer a driving model based on sound automative physics, which I
believe gp2 provides.. Everything that should happen is there to the best
ability of the hardware it has to run on.

with that said, i believe, (with my limited racing experience both
illegally on 'city circuits' and at tracks), that gp2 handles the closest
to what a real car handles like at relative racing speeds...  Indycar
gives me no feel of the road, no driving cues, which gp2 does a good job
of doing.  I think that gp2's physics are mathematically superior to that
of indycar's.  Now, i can't speak for nascar because i havent driven it
(it doesnt appeal to me).

point is, gp2 does a fairly good job of keeping me off the city roads..
it gives me a decent feel of the road, the car handles correctly, and it
looks good (if you can keep the OP under 100%).  with indycar, i played
it, but it never made me feel like i was racing anything, or driving
anything for that matter.  It looks good tho... but if an indycar handles
like that i feel sorry for those teams.. not even my chevy cavalier has
that kinda grip-less behavior (yes, i've driven icr2 at comparable speeds
(65-70mph)

: I still can not get over the 9 second pitstop thing to replace both front and
: rear wings AND replace the broken front axel and replace the wheel.

easy, dont damage yourself.. if the repair of your damaged car is more
important to you than the handling, i think you may want to rethink your
priorities..

: Wow! What a realistic simulator!
this sounds bitter... do you have something to gain by convincing others
that gp2 is an arcade game?

: Ashraf
: **************************************************************************
: Ashraf Ghebranious

-------
Carlos Ribas
MalSoft
http://www.nol.net/~draconis

He said he qualified 18th. Figure he dove right in, set for Pro mode,
and just mucked about. Lighten up. When you get  a drive in an F1 car,
then you can say more about how the driving model sucks. Until then,
kindly continue to 'understeer like a pig'.

Ummm... Zanardi sure seemed to think it handled like the real thing...
Perhaps you have more F1 seat time than Alessandro?

eric

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/

        /Harri Vainio

        /Helsinki University of Technology. Finland

I am not sure what you mean here? In GP1, if you got nudged and damaged, it
could cost you 20 - 30 secs to replace a single wing. This has a tremendous
implication on the race including where and who you end up behind during a
pit exit!

I may sound bitter, but I am totally disappointed that Geoff chose to ignore
this because after all, it is only a video game. Get it? It is not me who has
opted for the arcade game path. Really, I was disappointed with the weather
feature being disabled after marketed as a FEATURE OF THE GAME!! I was
disappointed with the fact that you can not edit the AI of the drivers and
make smarter or dumber drivers. I was disappointed with the way the game
ran! I downloaded a new SVGA***pit and because it is slightly larger, the
occupancy rate improvement is there! What? And My Crammond never thought of
that? I suppose, with all the delays etc, I was expecting what they originally
advertised. I mean really, I do not think people expected a beta
version with a patch to come! Legally, they breached a promise when they
'modified' the way the game ran!! I mean no rain??? Why the hell not???

Bottom line is, I like the GAME. To be a simulation it must first be patched
up a lot! But having said that, I do think it is a fine game!

Ashraf

---
DISCLAIMER: My comments are my own and not necessarily those of my employer
            OR my service provider.

**************************************************************************
Ashraf Ghebranious

"If it takes only one person to suppress your religion, then it cant be
much of a religion then can it?" - me

To find out more about the cult that is Scientology, subscribe to
ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY. Dont get me wrong, these people are dangerous!

"Jesus woman! I dont give a ***!"  Rhett Butler, slightly paraphrased
**************************************************************************

Hi Ashraf,

There's always the option to wait another 20 seconds or so - you don't
_have_ to leave the pits as soon as the damage is repaired <g>

There should have at least been the option for realistic repair times
though.

Slightly unrealistic to expect to make them smarter or dumber. If you
are simply referring to making them faster / slower then yes that
should have been there. Still, there is a good chance that editors
will be produced to overcome this (as was the case with F1GP).

The delays did lead us all to expect a lot. But if you can just
overcome that "I wish they had done this" attitude (took me a couple
of weeks <g>) and look at the underlying driving model, you will
realise just how superb it is.

Difficult to prove in a court (would be kind of nice if you could as
software suppliers have been getting away with things like this for
too long).

This was top of my list of desirables prior to the release, but having
seen the effect that smoke has on processor occupancy, realistic rain
just isn't on with the graphics engine and today's processors :( Would
you really be happy with a grey sky and less grip, as that's all we're
likely to get for at least another year.  Shame, but that's life. Next
time maybe <g>

IMHO the driving model puts it way above the rest and does qualify it
as the best racing _sim_ out there. Sure Geoff Crammond needs to look
at the opposition to see what they do better than him but the driving
model alone (have I said this enough yet <ggg>) marks it out as a
classic.

BTW have I said that I _really_ like the driving model ;-)

Cheers,
Richard

I think your making up the words to suit yourself.

--
Suck The Goat

: >easy, dont damage yourself.. if the repair of your damaged car is more
: >important to you than the handling, i think you may want to rethink your
: >priorities..
:
: Really? So I can be leading by 15-20 seconds and in the final few laps lose
: control or get hit by a silly drive, manage to pit, get new tyres, new wing
: etc in 9 seconds flat, leave the pits and still have a 3 second lead. Oh how
: realistic. That's what motor sport is all about huh?

actually, i like to think that motorsport is about racing..

: ran! I downloaded a new SVGA***pit and because it is slightly larger, the
: occupancy rate improvement is there! What? And My Crammond never thought of
not sure i understand this..

: advertised. I mean really, I do not think people expected a beta
: version with a patch to come! Legally, they breached a promise when they
: 'modified' the way the game ran!! I mean no rain??? Why the hell not???
its hardly a beta.. i've yet to have it crash on me

: Bottom line is, I like the GAME. To be a simulation it must first be patched
: up a lot! But having said that, I do think it is a fine game!

and, i disagree.  it is a simulation in that it simulates how a car
handles in real-life, and does a great job.  the rest is icing.

: Ashraf

-carlos, who is disappointed that ashraf didnt say anything about the
rest of his long post which he so carefully constructed.:)

-------
Carlos Ribas
MalSoft
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~draconis

I believe so as one article said that he used the game "Grand Prix"

Jamie

But.... 'realistic repair times' in F1 is either -

* after a few minutes, go back out do one lap and come back in to
retire.

* after a few minutes, go back out do 1/2 lap and retire on track

* after a few minutes, push the car backwards and retire in the garage.

Unfortunately (?), F1 cars are not built to rub wheels with other
drivers or conrete/brick/armco walls. In F1 even the gentlest bump
tends to bend a vital suspension component - which was as thin and
as light as the engineers could make it. Survivability doesn't
count for anything in F1.

Total agreement.

I've now created a few 'fun' set-ups with braking balance and
springing to make it tail-happy and (semi)controllable. It's
just so much fun coming out of the last turn at Imola with the
power full on and fish-tailing all the way up through 3rd gear :-)

( Before anyone remarks that the simulator wasn't meant for
this kind of playing let me point out that it's a whole lot
safer than me doing it on track !! - for those who don't beleive
me I can provide in car video of my similar act on a local
track - Knockhill, Fife, Scotland in an Alpine-Renault A610.
Then I came into the pits to 'cool-off'. Grabbing a beer from
the fridge after doing similar in GP2 seems more civilised :-)

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The world is too small for someone else to have an opinon that differs with
his, so he results to insults.

I can do that too Jeff. You must have a really small***! See? It's not
really all that hard to insult someone. Why don't you try voicing your opinion
instead of shouting mine down. That way, I can try and assess what it is you
are trying to say! Are you saying that F1GP2 obviously handles differently
then being in a real car? If so, then I think you basically made my point.
Again. Let us make an assumption Jeff, that Jaques has a hand or at least an
interest in how his car is setup. What would take us days to acheive in
balance, he could probably wiz up in an hour. Now if (I know, big if) he used
asetup similiar to the one he used for the race, then why didn't the car react
the same way???  Oh! I know! It's only a game! It's not real life at all! And
since in real life it would take more than 9 seconds to repair a wing, then
the game does not simulate real life.

Like I said before. Nice game but....

Ashraf

---
DISCLAIMER: My comments are my own and not necessarily those of my employer
            OR my service provider.

**************************************************************************
Ashraf Ghebranious

"If it takes only one person to suppress your religion, then it cant be
much of a religion then can it?" - me

To find out more about the cult that is Scientology, subscribe to
ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY. Dont get me wrong, these people are dangerous!

"Jesus woman! I dont give a ***!"  Rhett Butler, slightly paraphrased
**************************************************************************

Ashraf, it's trying to simulate DRIVING.

This isn't a weather simulator, it's not a pit-crew simulator, it's not
a flight simulator. The meat of GP2 is in the driving model, and THAT is
what changes it from "game" to "sim". Okay, there are aspects of the
game which aren't what you expected, but you know Geoff wasn't writing
this only for you. It is written to appeal to the broadest spectrum of
people possible, and that is why all the help options are there, the
arguably unecessary eye candy etc etc. You may not like it, but try to
think of what others are looking for before slating the product simply
because it doesn't push all of YOUR buttons.

A lot of my Quake playing friends have bought GP2 simply because they
CAN hop in and race with a keyboard, they don't lose two minutes in the
pits of 1 hours racing because of one mistake causing a big crash. *I*
don't like these, but I can recognise that they're important to others.
These people never even looked at ICR2 or NASCAR because they were
impossible to have fun with using keyboard.

Cheers!
John
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