me, it occurs about in 3% of the cases. It probably won't happen to you
ever again in N2k2, N2k3, N2k4, N2k5 ... N2k9 <g> unless you have a really
bad connection to the server.
Achim
Achim
Not quite Colin, I was only charged with 3 incidents in the race. Obviously
my bribe to Papy is still working :)
Phil
---
Racesim Central Administrator
http://www.racesimcentral.com
My connection was perfect all race, and I was nowhere NEAR the incidents
involved (as Phil will attest, or any others who were there). Something went
wrong with the reporting process, and I'd just like acknowledgement of that
fact.
> I also think it shouldn't be reset every 30 races. You earn your lpi over
> the time, and it's a reality of life that you have to live with the sins of
> your past ;-)
I was in a Sierra Lowe's race yesterday which must have been one
of the worst in history. For the first time I experienced to be
collected by a wreck from behind. After I had tip-toed my car through
a wreck, someone came full speed into it and plowed some cars into me
while i was accelerating out of it. I also experienced beeing rear
ended my the leader of the race when I went high so he could lap
me. None of the wrecks was of my fault, but I collected 3 nice IC
points.
My reason for my suggested IC point history idea, is the same as in
the ranking. In the ranking the best 8 of the 10 last races count,
with the argument that you improve over time and everyone have a bad
day from time to time. I mean that the lpi system should reflect some
of that aswell. The clean drivers will still have a high lpi, and the
***driver will still have bad lpi, but at least it will reflect your
current ability, not based on something you might have done a year ago.
--
Olav Malmin
remove .spam when replying
> > This happened in N4 too, it's the same LPI code as before and I didn't
> like
> > it then either. I have had numerous races in which I was close to an
> > accident and got charged with it.
> > Vintook
> If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused the contact
> 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and not everyone
> else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit ***in, I
> promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or getting swept into
> a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo...
> Its about to get worse with the patch and its ability to place an LPI
> resitriction on the clients...doesn't matter, I quit 'arena' racing mid-N4
> and my league server is IP connection so I don't bother carrying the
> anti-LPI banner anymore. With Papy's arena crashes of late, everyone in the
> league has quit fussing about IP connecting now...
The LPI restriction is IMHO a good thing, especially for unpassworded
public pickup races.
If you quit arena racing so long ago (almost a year), how do you think
that makes you qualified to comment at all?
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Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
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If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had four
incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which
didn't even bring out a yellow.
If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI
"perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of driver
am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicating how
clean a driver is?
For me and I expect many, many others, the LPI was a useless stat until we
heard about the forthcoming patch. When N2002 was released, I just wanted to
race as much as possible in the limited time I had to do so. I jumped on the
Papy servers, mostly in SS races, and got wholloped left and right. I didn't
give a damn about my LPI because it was useless. I ran some short track
races at Bristol and other tracks and they unfortunately turned into
demolition derbys. I was hit more times in 10 laps in one Bristol race than
in the entire 850 laps of RASCAR races. If the LPI had meant something to
me, I would of approached my race selections differently, but would of ended
up staring at the sierra.com lobby most of the time instead of actually
being on a track. At frustrating as the races were, they were the clear
choice over staring at the mind numbing chat in the lobby.
Now that the LPI is going to be a very useful tool to find clean racing, I'm
stuck with a LPI that is going to take a long time to rise to a point that
correctly reflects my true driving style. I may get shut out of races. Right
now it doesn't perfectly represent anything about how I drive.
Like I said, am I the 30 or the 200+ LPI type of driver? I can't be both. Am
I the driver who's caused one minor accidetn invloving just one other car in
850 laps of tight racing or a wrecker? I must of had a dozen three second
screen freezes during those RASCAR races (before I figured out what was
wrong) and I still never caused one other driver to suffer. If I remember
correctly, you use two ID's to avoid having your main ID LPI and track
rating damaged when you run on the Papy servers. I haven't done anything
like that. How can you say someone's LPI indicator of the type of driver
they are if you're using a second ID?
How would it hurt anyone to have the LPI settings reset? Everyone will
quickly gain a new LPI which accurately represents how they drive anyway. If
you were high before you'll be high again and vice versa.
No more questions from me. :-)
David G Fisher
Don Burnette
say 200 or more? There are
> "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
> the....." - Ash
> > Well I hope Papyrus can/will reset everyone's LPI when the patch is
> > released. Someone suggested the LPI should only reflect the last 30
races or
> > so but that's probably too much trouble. Simply resetting would be nice
> > though.
> > David G Fisher
> > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be
> > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide
> > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same
> > > determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that
> > > would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not
> > > cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being
> > > collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional
> > > incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but
> > > hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free
> > > laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in
> > > place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner
> > > drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic.
> > > - Eric
> > > > If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused the
> > > contact
> > > > 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and not
> > > everyone
> > > > else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit ***in,
I
> > > > promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or getting
swept
> > > into
> > > > a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo...
--
ed_
> I honestly think from my own memory these mishaps don't happen more often
> than in ~3% of the cases. This really isn't an issue.
> Achim
> > Going back to the topic here... What Colin said occured in the race is
> > something that shouldnt happen - right?
> > "Eric Busch" said:
> > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be
> > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide
> > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same
> > <SNIPPED!>
> If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI
> "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of driver
> am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicating how
> clean a driver is?
--
Fester
Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8)
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> 4/15/02
> > If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had four
> > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which
> > didn't even bring out a yellow.
> > If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI
> > "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of driver
> > am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicating how
> > clean a driver is?
> You're absolutely right there. That is a perfect example of how useless
> it is at rating a driver's ability. The fact that one must either sit
> out races or create another ID to race with also attests to it's
> uselessness as an ability reflector. Nobody can rightly pound their
> chest about how good they are if they've needed to keep multiple ID's in
> order to get that way.
Back on TEN it wasn't uncommon to see a 100% race with only 2 or 3
people in them, usually a short track so they'd get many laps in, 500
miles at Marty at 30 miles an hour does wonders for your LPI
So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of
course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you
can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--
I think you've really nailed down what makes LPI mainly useless. It
has as much to do with who you race with and what servers you race on
as with your own driving skill.
I think 30 is actually pretty good if you do a lot of pickup racing.
Even if you are an experienced sim driver, you can't get into higher
ranked races until you suffer through the lower ranks. Even when you
get into better racing, if you go to some place like Martinsville or
Dover, you can just about count on getting at least one incident, no
matter how good you are.
The only thing a astronomical LPI tells me is that the driver belongs
to a nice league and doesn't get out much. Or, they have raced only a
limited number of races with very small fields and manage to avoid
trouble "so far".
I think it is still mostly useless, even with a filter. Have I missed
something?
Other than the parts about LPI being a useful tool, and reflective of
driver skill, agreed.
Resetting it won't really help anyone either. How do you filter the
bad drivers out if everyones stats are the same? There will be a
period where filtering by LPI would perhaps be even less useful than
it would be if the stat is not reset.
Never rely on a machine to do a human task.
The only way you can ensure yourself of relatively trouble free racing
is to race with the same bunch of folks on a regular basis. Everyone
gets to know everyone else's style, and everyone takes greater pains
to be careful and alert and respectful. Be this a league or whatever.
I think the RASCAR races have a lot of potential for good racing. I
wouldn't worry about stats and filtering too much. Getting the same
bunch together every week will take care of lots of problems right off
the bat. If the stray joker shows up and starts ruining stuff, just
ask them to leave or boot them or ban them. Or make a new friend and
offer to teach them how to race clean.
Just be patient, relax, good things will follow, I think.
Gerald
-John
> > > If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had
four
> > > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself
which
> > > didn't even bring out a yellow.
> > > If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the
LPI
> > > "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of
driver
> > > am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at
indicating how
> > > clean a driver is?
> > You're absolutely right there. That is a perfect example of how useless
> > it is at rating a driver's ability. The fact that one must either sit
> > out races or create another ID to race with also attests to it's
> > uselessness as an ability reflector. Nobody can rightly pound their
> > chest about how good they are if they've needed to keep multiple ID's in
> > order to get that way.
> And then we have "padding"......
> Back on TEN it wasn't uncommon to see a 100% race with only 2 or 3
> people in them, usually a short track so they'd get many laps in, 500
> miles at Marty at 30 miles an hour does wonders for your LPI
> So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of
> course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you
> can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-)
> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy
> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> --Groucho Marx--
Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm..
what rhymes on hooters?)
> The only way you can ensure yourself of relatively trouble free racing
> is to race with the same bunch of folks on a regular basis. Everyone
> gets to know everyone else's style, and everyone takes greater pains
> to be careful and alert and respectful. Be this a league or whatever.
> I think the RASCAR races have a lot of potential for good racing. I
> wouldn't worry about stats and filtering too much. Getting the same
> bunch together every week will take care of lots of problems right off
> the bat. If the stray joker shows up and starts ruining stuff, just
> ask them to leave or boot them or ban them. Or make a new friend and
> offer to teach them how to race clean.
That's also one of the reasons I never joined a league in N4 (or N2002
for that matter, but I've only had if for a week). I am commited to do
one league race in GPL every second sunday, but commiting to a big
NASCAR schedule is too much. All I wan't is good clean racing with
familiar people, and so far, the best racing I've had in N4 was with
my fellow GPL league friends when we agreed to do N4 one offs.
Here's to a bright future :)
--
Olav Malmin
remove .spam when replying
> >So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of
> >course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you
> >can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-)
> People, people, why so much discussion over something totally
> unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful
> things in the world like LOVE?
> Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm..
> what rhymes on hooters?)
--
Olav Malmin
remove .spam when replying