rec.autos.simulators

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

Steve Smit

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Steve Smit » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:21:04

Console games developer TDK is coming out with World Racing (aka
Mercedes-Benz World Racing) for the Xbox--ugh!--in February and the
PS2--yay!--in March.  For those of you who were disappointed--as I was--that
EA abandoned a promising franchise by failing to follow up Need for Speed:
Porsche Unleashed with another single-malt, er, marque, game (the present
NfS:HP2 is a travesty...at least for the Xbox and close-to for the PC),
World Racing *may* fill the bill.  Like PU, it's got an historical
perspective - you get to roar around in the legendary swing-axle 300SL as
well as more recent iron from Sindelfingen.  You also get some unprecedented
track lengths for console games - up to 30 miles!  Wonder if Moss and Jenks
take on the Futa pass in a 300SLR....  Check it out here:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
5&pagetype=2

--Steve Smith

Jason Moy

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Jason Moy » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 00:07:03

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:21:04 GMT, "Steve Smith"


>Console games developer TDK is coming out with World Racing (aka
>Mercedes-Benz World Racing) for the Xbox--ugh!

Why the ugh?

Also, what's your take on Motor Trend Lotus Challenge?  I'm guessing
it won't be worth picking up for the PC, but it looks like it *might*
be a decent console racer.  I also fear Colin Chapman's ghost may
start haunting me if I don't buy it.

Jason

Steve Smit

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Steve Smit » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:37:48

Never heard of it.  Which is strange (very) in that I just completed a story
for MT, entitled "Car Games for Car Guys" (altho they may have chosen to go
with a diff. title), due to be published--I think--in the March issue, on
sale next month.  You'd think they might have mentioned if they had a game
coming out with their name on the box.  Or not.  Road & Track had nothing
whatsoever to do with the first "Need for Speed" (nor did car & Driver have
anything to do with the awful game with their name in the title that
appeared around the same time).

"Ugh," because after doing all that research on console games for the
magazine, I concluded that the Xbox has very little to offer car guys like
thee and me.  The PS2, on the other hand, not only has infinitely better
steering wheel support (including FF), it also has whoppingly better titles
(incliding the ubiquitous--it's sold 15 million copies--Gran Turismo
series).

Colin Chapman is too busy counting his ill-gotten millions in heaven to
notice what anybody on earth (with the possible exception of John Z.
DeLorean) is doing.

--Steve


> On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:21:04 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >Console games developer TDK is coming out with World Racing (aka
> >Mercedes-Benz World Racing) for the Xbox--ugh!

> Why the ugh?

> Also, what's your take on Motor Trend Lotus Challenge?  I'm guessing
> it won't be worth picking up for the PC, but it looks like it *might*
> be a decent console racer.  I also fear Colin Chapman's ghost may
> start haunting me if I don't buy it.

> Jason

John DiFoo

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by John DiFoo » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:08:44


> Never heard of it.  Which is strange (very) in that I just completed a story
> for MT, entitled "Car Games for Car Guys" (altho they may have chosen to go
> with a diff. title), due to be published--I think--in the March issue, on
> sale next month.  You'd think they might have mentioned if they had a game
> coming out with their name on the box.  Or not.  Road & Track had nothing
> whatsoever to do with the first "Need for Speed" (nor did car & Driver have
> anything to do with the awful game with their name in the title that
> appeared around the same time).

> "Ugh," because after doing all that research on console games for the
> magazine, I concluded that the Xbox has very little to offer car guys like
> thee and me.  The PS2, on the other hand, not only has infinitely better
> steering wheel support (including FF), it also has whoppingly better titles
> (incliding the ubiquitous--it's sold 15 million copies--Gran Turismo
> series).

     Is the Gamecube worthwhile?  My nephew just got it for Xmas
and I might want to give him a racing game for his birthday...

    JD

--
============================================
And she beckons to you with her secrets and lies
============================================

Steve Smit

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Steve Smit » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:37:36

Not if racing games are a significant part of the deal.  It's mostly an age
thing.  The GC is aimed at 6-8 years old, the PS2 at 8-12, and the Xbox at
12 & up...ROUGHLY (don't get bent outta shape if you love yer PS2 and you're
still living with yo momma at age 32).  I briefly considered the GC for the
story (it started out as a PC games story...before I realized all the car
racing "sims" were coming out on the consoles!), but there aren't any
serious games, and even the GC's arcade games are more abt. stuntz n'
krashes than any real track time (or tracks).  But don't tell my son (age
10).



> > Never heard of it.  Which is strange (very) in that I just completed a
story
> > for MT, entitled "Car Games for Car Guys" (altho they may have chosen to
go
> > with a diff. title), due to be published--I think--in the March issue,
on
> > sale next month.  You'd think they might have mentioned if they had a
game
> > coming out with their name on the box.  Or not.  Road & Track had
nothing
> > whatsoever to do with the first "Need for Speed" (nor did car & Driver
have
> > anything to do with the awful game with their name in the title that
> > appeared around the same time).

> > "Ugh," because after doing all that research on console games for the
> > magazine, I concluded that the Xbox has very little to offer car guys
like
> > thee and me.  The PS2, on the other hand, not only has infinitely better
> > steering wheel support (including FF), it also has whoppingly better
titles
> > (incliding the ubiquitous--it's sold 15 million copies--Gran Turismo
> > series).

>      Is the Gamecube worthwhile?  My nephew just got it for Xmas
> and I might want to give him a racing game for his birthday...

>     JD

> --
> ============================================
> And she beckons to you with her secrets and lies
> ============================================

Joe M

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Joe M » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 04:28:18

At least the GC has the Logitech FF wheel (oddly sold in 2 parts -wheel and
pedals separately).  The Xbox NEEDS a true FF wheel to compete with the PS2
(although we disagree about GT3 which I think is grossly overrated since it
lacks ANY AI and has only 6 competitors).

BTW Steve, the xbox may have a brighter future for racing with a wheel
coupled with some games on the horizon.  I've heard very good things about
Pro Sports Car Racer which was delayed for improvements for the Xbox.
Project Gotham 2 with online racing (Porsche GT2 anyone?) and more refined
physics sounds terrific.  The Mercedes game will certainly sound better in
DD 5.1 and will probably run smoother as well.  Midtown Madness 3 should be
a fun racer.  This all hinges on a FF wheel.

MS WAKE UP!!! We need a real wheel!!! Ah, that feels better. ;0)

--
Joe M.


> Not if racing games are a significant part of the deal.  It's mostly an
age
> thing.  The GC is aimed at 6-8 years old, the PS2 at 8-12, and the Xbox at
> 12 & up...ROUGHLY (don't get bent outta shape if you love yer PS2 and
you're
> still living with yo momma at age 32).  I briefly considered the GC for
the
> story (it started out as a PC games story...before I realized all the car
> racing "sims" were coming out on the consoles!), but there aren't any
> serious games, and even the GC's arcade games are more abt. stuntz n'
> krashes than any real track time (or tracks).  But don't tell my son (age
> 10).




> > > Never heard of it.  Which is strange (very) in that I just completed a
> story
> > > for MT, entitled "Car Games for Car Guys" (altho they may have chosen
to
> go
> > > with a diff. title), due to be published--I think--in the March issue,
> on
> > > sale next month.  You'd think they might have mentioned if they had a
> game
> > > coming out with their name on the box.  Or not.  Road & Track had
> nothing
> > > whatsoever to do with the first "Need for Speed" (nor did car & Driver
> have
> > > anything to do with the awful game with their name in the title that
> > > appeared around the same time).

> > > "Ugh," because after doing all that research on console games for the
> > > magazine, I concluded that the Xbox has very little to offer car guys
> like
> > > thee and me.  The PS2, on the other hand, not only has infinitely
better
> > > steering wheel support (including FF), it also has whoppingly better
> titles
> > > (incliding the ubiquitous--it's sold 15 million copies--Gran Turismo
> > > series).

> >      Is the Gamecube worthwhile?  My nephew just got it for Xmas
> > and I might want to give him a racing game for his birthday...

> >     JD

> > --
> > ============================================
> > And she beckons to you with her secrets and lies
> > ============================================

Roger Squire

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Roger Squire » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 04:48:56

    You can't just state this without expanding.  Its been a truism in the
NFS community for years that R&T's involvement is what made NFS1 the best of
the series.  Please explain.

rms

Steve Smit

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Steve Smit » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:14:28

MS acted embarrassed when I asked them why the Xbox supported neither FF nor
USB ports, and mumbled inaudibly when I inquired about their online racing
plans.  (Same response I'd gotten earlier to why they dropped support of FF
for their joysticks and the s/w-challenged wheel & pedals...altho I see
these items are now back on the shelves, even tho not updated.)

I saw Midtown Madness 3 at a press preview, and it indeed looked astounding.
The new city is Paris, which I'm quite familiar with, my father having lived
there.  The game looks just like Claude Lelouch 's iconic pre-dawn romp thru
the City of Light ("Rendevous").  But what's puzzling me (hope you guess my
name) is why this will be the first online car game.  It's free-form.  You
can drive anywhere.  Why isn't it circuit racing (NASCAR, say, for its
marquee value), or at least street racing on a fixed course?  That way, a
bunch of guys could get together online and have a r-a-c-e.  With MM3, a
bunch of guys can get together...and all drive off in different directions.
Where's the fun--much less the gameplay--in that?

The other online Xbox racers will include Pro Race Driver, Rallisport2,
Gotham II (but prolly not NfS:NP3, given EA's antipathy to the Beast of
Redmond), etc., etc., but my money's on Gran Turismo 4.


> At least the GC has the Logitech FF wheel (oddly sold in 2 parts -wheel
and
> pedals separately).  The Xbox NEEDS a true FF wheel to compete with the
PS2
> (although we disagree about GT3 which I think is grossly overrated since
it
> lacks ANY AI and has only 6 competitors).

> BTW Steve, the xbox may have a brighter future for racing with a wheel
> coupled with some games on the horizon.  I've heard very good things about
> Pro Sports Car Racer which was delayed for improvements for the Xbox.
> Project Gotham 2 with online racing (Porsche GT2 anyone?) and more refined
> physics sounds terrific.  The Mercedes game will certainly sound better in
> DD 5.1 and will probably run smoother as well.  Midtown Madness 3 should
be
> a fun racer.  This all hinges on a FF wheel.

> MS WAKE UP!!! We need a real wheel!!! Ah, that feels better. ;0)

> --
> Joe M.



> > Not if racing games are a significant part of the deal.  It's mostly an
> age
> > thing.  The GC is aimed at 6-8 years old, the PS2 at 8-12, and the Xbox
at
> > 12 & up...ROUGHLY (don't get bent outta shape if you love yer PS2 and
> you're
> > still living with yo momma at age 32).  I briefly considered the GC for
> the
> > story (it started out as a PC games story...before I realized all the
car
> > racing "sims" were coming out on the consoles!), but there aren't any
> > serious games, and even the GC's arcade games are more abt. stuntz n'
> > krashes than any real track time (or tracks).  But don't tell my son
(age
> > 10).




> > > > Never heard of it.  Which is strange (very) in that I just completed
a
> > story
> > > > for MT, entitled "Car Games for Car Guys" (altho they may have
chosen
> to
> > go
> > > > with a diff. title), due to be published--I think--in the March
issue,
> > on
> > > > sale next month.  You'd think they might have mentioned if they had
a
> > game
> > > > coming out with their name on the box.  Or not.  Road & Track had
> > nothing
> > > > whatsoever to do with the first "Need for Speed" (nor did car &
Driver
> > have
> > > > anything to do with the awful game with their name in the title that
> > > > appeared around the same time).

> > > > "Ugh," because after doing all that research on console games for
the
> > > > magazine, I concluded that the Xbox has very little to offer car
guys
> > like
> > > > thee and me.  The PS2, on the other hand, not only has infinitely
> better
> > > > steering wheel support (including FF), it also has whoppingly better
> > titles
> > > > (incliding the ubiquitous--it's sold 15 million copies--Gran Turismo
> > > > series).

> > >      Is the Gamecube worthwhile?  My nephew just got it for Xmas
> > > and I might want to give him a racing game for his birthday...

> > >     JD

> > > --
> > > ============================================
> > > And she beckons to you with her secrets and lies
> > > ============================================

Steve Smit

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Steve Smit » Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:56:54

It's that simple, really.  The editorial staff of R&T not only had no
involvement (when I first called a friend there, he hadn't even heard of
it), they despised the whole notion of a "video game" (as they called it).
Check the credits: how many Newport Beach residents do you see?   It was a
licensing deal, pure and simple.  As I remember it, the mag was owned by CBS
at the time (or maybe KKR's mag division) and the deal was cut in New York.
EA wanted R&T's name recognition and paid something like 50G for the
privilege.  The deal lasted a year, after which EA realized the audiences
were mutually exclusive (few R&T readers bought the game; most of the
players were game geeks) and the deal was dropped.

Car and Driver had a similar deal, only in their case, the game was an total
embarrassment (you could roar into hairpin turns at 200 mph...and the car
would speed up!).

Since then, both magazines have had unfettered antipathy to racing sims.
I've managed to sell a few stories to C&D (reviews of IndyCar and NASCAR
Racing, etc.), but R&T has been particularly mum.  Talking Motor Trend into
a story wasn't a walk in the park, either.  (I've been the editor of two of
those mags, BTW, and worked at all 3.)


> >Road & Track had nothing
> > whatsoever to do with the first "Need for Speed"

>     You can't just state this without expanding.  Its been a truism in the
> NFS community for years that R&T's involvement is what made NFS1 the best
of
> the series.  Please explain.

> rms


don hodgdo

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by don hodgdo » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:20:04


No walk in the park indeed...before I left Los Angeles I ran the black &
white lab that did all the processing and printing for Motor Trend and the
rest of the EMAP/Petersen Group of magazines. During this time I met with
many of the writers and editors of the magazine and would put in a plug for
racing simulators in general, and GPL in particular, whenever I could. A
couple of the guys tried them out, I even had some good online NASCAR 3
races with one of them, but for the most part, these fellows had little use
for computers other than word processing and thought their time and $$ was
better spent working on real cars and racing on real tracks.

Steve, the answer is simple, we need you to take over Thos L. Bryant's job
at R&T ;-)

--
don

-------------------------------------
                    BAPOM
Alternative Program Covers for GPL
   http://www.trilon.com/bapom/

Steve Smit

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Steve Smit » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 02:33:09

Don't start the revolution without me!




> >SNIP<
> > Since then, both magazines have had unfettered antipathy to racing sims.
> > I've managed to sell a few stories to C&D (reviews of IndyCar and NASCAR
> > Racing, etc.), but R&T has been particularly mum.  Talking Motor Trend
> into
> > a story wasn't a walk in the park, either.  (I've been the editor of two
> of
> > those mags, BTW, and worked at all 3.)
> >SNIP<

> No walk in the park indeed...before I left Los Angeles I ran the black &
> white lab that did all the processing and printing for Motor Trend and the
> rest of the EMAP/Petersen Group of magazines. During this time I met with
> many of the writers and editors of the magazine and would put in a plug
for
> racing simulators in general, and GPL in particular, whenever I could. A
> couple of the guys tried them out, I even had some good online NASCAR 3
> races with one of them, but for the most part, these fellows had little
use
> for computers other than word processing and thought their time and $$ was
> better spent working on real cars and racing on real tracks.

> Steve, the answer is simple, we need you to take over Thos L. Bryant's job
> at R&T ;-)

> --
> don

> -------------------------------------
>                     BAPOM
> Alternative Program Covers for GPL
>    http://www.trilon.com/bapom/

Jason Moy

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Jason Moy » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:02:51

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:37:48 GMT, "Steve Smith"


>"Ugh," because after doing all that research on console games for the
>magazine, I concluded that the Xbox has very little to offer car guys like
>thee and me.  The PS2, on the other hand, not only has infinitely better
>steering wheel support (including FF), it also has whoppingly better titles
>(incliding the ubiquitous--it's sold 15 million copies--Gran Turismo
>series).

I have to take one on the chin and say that I like Sega GT 2002 more
than GT3.  Personally I find the games to be similar.  GT3 is a tad
more realistic and has much more gameplay, but I much prefer the
selection of cars in GT 2002.  I also haven't really enjoyed any PS2
racers besides the GT series (I haven't tried WRC II which I hear is
fabulous and almost makes me want to buy a PS2).

I'm not trying to argue with you, because I think it's a matter of
opinion really, plus I'd have to admit if pressed that you're probably
right, and I agree with the reasons you've given for your opinion.  

That said, I love Rallisport Challenge on a console (the PC version
bored me, but ti's a blast with a pad), Metropolis Street Racer on the
DC and Project Gotham have  a unique gameplay dynamic that I really
enjoy, and of course there's always Spy Hunter when I just want to
down a few beers and blow things up. =)

So far my favorite game is probably Nascar Thunder 2003 actually.  The
effects used in the Xbox version IMHO set a serious standard for lite
simulations and the handling may be the best I've seen in a console
racer even if it's forgiving.  This is really the one console game I
wish I had a wheel for, because it's brutal trying to race to any
degree of competency on a gamepad without using driving aids.

DEAR MICROSOFT, SIDEWINDER PRO FOR THE XBOX, THANK YOU.

(keep in mind I'm giving this opinion while already owning F355 for
the Dreamcast, which is one of a handful of games I'd really want on a
PS2)

I dunno, sometimes I wonder what modern motorsport would be like if
Colin were still revolutionizing the industry with every car.  I can't
help but think that the path F1 has trodden down would be a lot more
diverse and exciting with his involvement.

Jason

don hodgdo

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by don hodgdo » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:12:35

Steve,

Have you sent in your resume for the Managing Editor job at RACER? You'd get
to work with your buddy Yates again (not sure if that's a plus) and get the
heck out of that NY winter ;-)

don


d..

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by d.. » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 05:11:44

Tried the XBOX for a while.  I did enjoy the car selection in
SegaGT2002, but it doesn't have the legs that the PS2's GT3 has.  
I still play GT3, trying to better lap times or beat the game
quicker, a year after purchase. And computing power or not, GT3 is
just more attractive.  

But SegaGT2002 is far, far better than the horrid DC original.  
Project Gotham Racing also does have some entertainment value.  
Maybe moreso having lived in two of the featured cities.

(PS2) NFS:HP2 was worth a rental, but I preferred the PC's NFS:
Porsche Unleashed. F12K2002 on the PS2 however is not.

And from all accounts, Ferrari 355 on the PS2 isn't any better
than on the DC (which I have).  TD Lemans is significantly worse
on the PS2 due to horrid load times.

But I'd say at today's prices, GT3 is almost enough reason to buy
a PS2.

Doug Millike

Attention Porsche Unleashed fans!

by Doug Millike » Tue, 21 Jan 2003 05:27:16


> Since then, both magazines have had unfettered antipathy to racing sims.
> I've managed to sell a few stories to C&D (reviews of IndyCar and NASCAR
> Racing, etc.), but R&T has been particularly mum.  Talking Motor Trend into
> a story wasn't a walk in the park, either.  (I've been the editor of two of
> those mags, BTW, and worked at all 3.)

Another $0.02 worth -- R&T has done nice stories on two racing simulators
that I'm aware of (not home games):

-- Atari Hard Drivin' -- first arcade game with good physics
   and force feedback steering (late 1980's)

-- NASCAR Silicon Motor Speedway -- climb-in simulators in shopping malls

You might guess that I twisted R&T's arm (since I was involved with both
games), but really all I did was let someone at R&T know that the games
were out there.  They did the research and articles on their own.

-- Doug Milliken
   www.millikenresearch.com


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