rec.autos.simulators

Eldred

__

Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

http://aj.encyclopedia.com/articles/08921.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/vietnam/trenches/mylai.html

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* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.cabal.net
* http://www.sputum.com

Good grief, then you really don't know too much about that conflict then, do
you?  While My Lai was just a single incident in the war, how could you
possibly have not heard of it, especially when you were arguing with a vet
of that conflict?  Now I think that it is YOUR opinions which are based on
Oliver Stone movies.  Or is it just due to youth and lack of information?
Are you just some 16 year old kid mouthing off here or something?

I think you've shown your hand here.  First you've held up Muhammed Ali as a
hero when you don't seem to even know too much about the war that he was
protesting, and now you're saying that service to land and country is not an
honorable thing.  I think that we have a pretty clear picture of you now.
Lots of good men and women have died and endured hardship for their nation,
which includes people like you.  Good heavens... now I'm becoming MUCH more
sympathetic to Mr. Simmon's original choice of words.

Hey John---you totally contradict yourself in the same sentence

So do they have the right, or not? First you say they do, then you say
they don't. Or is it that we can call someone a "shit stain" as long as
it isn't AFTER they expressed their opinion, only before? I just don't
get the logic. It again points in the direction of "if someone gets
offended---then you can't say that". Not a good example of freedom if
you ask me.

Again, I should have myself more clear perhaps. When I mean they should
solve it between themselves, I mean it's a personal battle of words
between the 2 of them, and perhaps we should leave it to be battled on
by them. You are correct in thinking that if they bring it to a public
forum, then they should expect the public to get involved, but perhaps,
looking at it now, the whole thing was better left alone in the first
place, don't you think?

Cheers!
John

Cheers!
John

My perceptions are based upon everything I have experienced, and Olly
Stone movies are an inescapable part of that. As to the others I'm
sure you can make, or gave made, up your own mind on those.

Oh for heaven's sake, please not the classic Usenet "non-response".
READ what I wrote - "...is not IN ITSELF a laudable...".. That is a
very different meaning from the words you are trying to insert into my
mouth. Answer what I wrote, not what you wish I had.

If you do then it's the wrong one.

Don't be bashful now, say what you mean.

Cheers!
John

No, it's certainly been a voyage of foot-stamping, petulance and
morale crusading around here - quite an eye-opener in many ways.

Probably best left alone, <rhetoric> but then if I choose to take
exception to unjustified abuse and people take exception to my
exception, what's a guy to do? </rhetoric>

Cheers!
John

Those vets were doing their job. Some of them, frustrated by the
horror of the situation, the pathetic rules of engagement, inept leadership
and the ***y-trap deaths of their buddies took matters into their own
hands, from time to time.

They just wanted to survive and to come home to their families.

Period.

I have nothing but respect for them and what they had to do. I would
have been there myself, but was discharged in 1964.

John, please don't second-guess the actions of -normal- Americans
when faced with their own life and death during the Vietnam war.
I'm afraid that you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Thanks.

--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Cheers!
John

This thread started with a clear-cut black and white bit of verbal
abuse, meandered around with people trying to second guess what _I_
would do if _I_ had been in Vietnam, and arrived at the current point.
At no time did I second guess the actions of -normal- Americans - what
I did was to state (the clear fact) that serving your country does not
automatically qualify you as a good person, and that some (unspecified
percentage) of the Americans serving there perpetrated some horrific
atrocities.

If you can tell me that the above statement is wrong and that I don't
what I am talking about I will gladly listen. However please DON'T
misinterpret that comment as "all vets committed atrocities" as that
is not what it means. It was an isolated statement designed to
illustrate that serving in the army implies nothing about you. You may
be a volunteer, you may be drafted, you may be a Green beret, you may
have served in the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps - serving in the
army tells next to nothing about a person - that was the only point of
the statement.

I have a lot of respect for Ali for standing up for his opinions - I
also mentioned that I have a lot of respect for people who went and
fought for their country. The only way to talk about a group of people
is to generalise, and yet war brings out such extremes of emotion that
comments made in that manner can only be understood if people listen
to them in that manner - there are ALWAYS going to be exceptions which
certainly shouldn't be considered as personal slights.

Cheers!
John

John, I am taking the liberty of focusing on this one, misguided
issue to make a point. I hope you don't take offense.

Cassius Clay (M.Ali) was -never- a Muslim until he was served
with his draft papers. Did you know that?

Also, I don't have too much sympathy for people who want
the protection of their country and system of government
without accepting their share of responsibility in the
country's time of need.

If everyone had taken Ali's 'heroic' approach in WWII,
you would be sprechen German instead of speaking with
that Scottish brogue I am sure that you cherish.

It's time to stop and think about this, John. It was a bad
time in the history of the world, but normal, everyday
people fought in it. They weren't some sort of military
satan. None of them.

--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.cabal.net
* http://www.sputum.com