rec.autos.simulators

I'm finding trail braking very hard, but think that I will need to
master it to get much faster. I've watched some of the faster guys like
Ian Parker and Rick Prydden in practice sessions and they seem to brake
very much later than I do. If I try to brake when they do, I just
overshoot the corner. Any tips, please?
Cheers,
Paul

Hi Paul,

Firstly I dont think I'm that fast :)
 What brake bias setting do you use? I find that if I use brake bias of
about 57 -58 %, I'd often lock the front wheels going into the corners but
since lowering to 52 - 54 % I can brake much later. The downside to this is
that it's very easy to lock up a rear in the corner if you dont finish
braking in a straight line.
Are you using split axis on your controller? If so, using a lower brake bias
is easier than with a combined axis because when the rear's do begin to
lock,a bit of gas can help to steady things up while still on the brakes and
without upsetting the balance too much. The most important thing is to be
smooth and not lock the wheels up.
As for R Prydden, I think he's just a mental driver :-). I've known him for
years, and before GPL we were very closely matched on all games / sims.
Times within half a second over race distances usually. Now in GPL he is
about a second a lap faster than me on all tracks except Mosport,Zandvoort
and the Nurburgring.

BTW he uses a GP1 wheel, I use a MS FF. Maybe the speed he can get on the
gas / brakes is faster with the GP1 :)
--
Ian Parker

ICQ   21772592

Thanks Ian - I'll try these tips. I've just installed independant
brakes/throttle and was finding it much easier to lock up. So I switched back
decided I preferred independant switched back again and now I'm so confused I've
lost half a second at each track :-)
Fast is a relative thing. To me the car disappearing over the horizon when I'm
at full throttle is fast - no doubt you see other people do that to you but I
don't even know they're there :-)
Thanks again for the setups - I've been meaning to mail you proper to thank you
- soon!
Cheers,
Paul

I've found that that brake modulation, (once or twice) helps me out enormously
in trail-braking......

Try with brake balance set to 55% or 54% (for Lotus that is, may be higher
for other cars)
and do not downshift immediately, you should rather listen to the tire
squeel. Brake so that you
can hear occasional squeel or squeel all the time but make sure you don't
lock up, downshift when
on lower revs.

But I may be completely wrong :o)

Tadej Krevh
Lotus Internet Racing organization
http://members.xoom.com/LotusRacing/

<snip>

In addition to Ian's words, a Jim Clark tip:

"Some people brake so late, in fact too late, so they brake too
much...it's better to brake eariler and less, helps to keep the speed
up.."

Easy-peasy :-D

Matt
--
-----------------------------------------
Matthew Knutsen

"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
http://home.sol.no/~kareknut/simrace1.htm
-----------------------------------------

If you are wrong how fast will you go when you get it right!

Sounds similar to Jackie Stewart's reported advice to one D. Coultard a few
years ago.  At least the TV crews (ESPN) reported it.  Stewart told DC it
looked as though he was driving too far into the corner and throwing his
rhythm off.

DC apparently found a good bit of speed from following this advice.

% In addition to Ian's words, a Jim Clark tip:

% "Some people brake so late, in fact too late, so they brake too
% much...it's better to brake eariler and less, helps to keep the speed
% up.."

This is all too true.  I have done my share of VROC racing and the one
place I see this happening all the time is at Monza going into the first
Lesmo.  This and the Parabolica are the 2 places people seem to want to
try late/heavy braking.  I like to take these nice and easy.  Most
people who barrel into the 1st Lesmo, end up losing too much speed
getting through the turn and slip too far to the outside early.  It's a
piece of cake to let them barrel in and slip by nice and easy on the
inside and beat them to the 2nd Lesmo.  The same holds true for the
Parabolica.  Anytime I see anyone flying in my mirrors to this corner, I
just brake slow and easy, letting them fly by and then pass them on the
inside, while they fight to keep their car on the track.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes - it's far more valuable to brake a bit early and enter the corner at an
accurate speed rather than be the last of the late brakers and maybe slow
down too much or not enough.

- Michael

Martin Brundle is always describing that third Michael (Michael Schumacher) as
the last of the late brakers. Apparently, he drives his cars on the ragged edge
and wrings every last ounce from them rather than stroking them around gently,
and he has the third best wins to starts ratio in Formula 1 history (after Clark
and Fangio). If you can brake later than the next person but have your car going
in the same direction at the same speed and in the same position on the track
when you've finished braking then surely you will return faster laptimes, though
perhaps the difference is small. Maybe it's a matter of style and setup.
Cheers,
Paul

Every time I brake early, someone runs into the back of me 2 seconds
later... sigh...

Hi,
You have a valid point , I have found that very often I brake so late and
hard that I am losing exit speed and am therefore slower along the next
straight, especially at Spa and Monza where getting up to speed as soon as
possible is the order of the day.
Slower in = Faster out.   I need more practice :)

--
Ian Parker

ICQ   21772592

% >
% >This is all too true.  I have done my share of VROC racing and the one
% >place I see this happening all the time is at Monza going into the first
% >Lesmo.  This and the Parabolica are the 2 places people seem to want to
% >try late/heavy braking.  I like to take these nice and easy.  Most
% >people who barrel into the 1st Lesmo, end up losing too much speed

% Every time I brake early, someone runs into the back of me 2 seconds
% later... sigh...

Move off line.  If they are truly faster, they won't be around long for
you to worry about.  If they aren't, chances are they will blow the turn
and you shouldn't see them again, once you get by. ;-)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

There's always an exception to the rule:-) The best of the best can brake
extremely late *and* guarantee an accurate corner entry speed lap after lap.
If you can do this then all things being equal you will get a faster lap
time.

For us ordinary mortals it's a bit different!

- Michael