rec.autos.simulators

yeah i know - practice practice ;)

--
Mike Buckley    
Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd
Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591  Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208

WWW:    www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

P.S. : I'm having a fun of my life racing with default setups, because I
really have to fight for positions.
         Top speed and general straight line speed are about 5 to 10kmh
lower so I have to make up
         the difference in the corners :o)  It's more fun then 'hotlapping'
infront of the field ;o)

Tadej Krevh
Lotus Internet Racing organization
http://members.xoom.com/LotusRacing/

Try that on some 1:27's Monza guy and all you'll be doing in Parabolica is waving
him goodbye...

Really, brake as late as you can, as hard as you can and make sure you don't
fight the car
in the corner (or drift wide for that matter). As a matter a fact, try to drift
as little as possible.
IMO when drifting you scrubb off speed.

Tadej Krevh
Lotus Internet Racinf organization
http://members.xoom.com/LotusRacing/

    Why practice for 20-30 min only to be wiped out before the 1st lap
is over. And your idea of moving off line doesn't work often. I
know,'cause I try it all the time.

    As an example,late last night I joined a race with 15 others at the
Glen for "serious" racers only. I only managed to qualify with a 1:11. I
started the race 13th in my Ferrari. You guessed it,big accident. I
managed to weave my way through the carnage with just being hit once in
the rear,but saved it because I was literally crawling. I finished the
1st lap in 5th. Moved up to 4th with 4 laps to go,then had a big case of
brain fade and spun out. finished in 5th.

    My point is that I'm by no means fast,just consistent. Many a Lotus
driver has complained that I brake to early for them. But trying to
brake as late as a Lotus,constantly puts me into the woods. It's their
responsibility to drive around you,not through you. Unfortunately,this
isn't the case very often.

Joel Willstein

But getting taken out my other people's mistakes is always a peril. I
was in a different race at the Glen last night, a "no lotus, eagle,
ferrari" so I joined with my little Brabham, which is virtually as fast
there as anything but the Lotus.

I was leading and easing away, trying not to make mistakes. I come
around big bend, ready for the left kink before the "90." All of a
sudden, a BRM comes out of the ditch on the left side going backwards
right on the racing line! Now maybe putting the brakes on didn't help,
but if you biff the wall, hit your brakes if you can! That will help
prevent this. Needless to say, I was on top of him before I knew it, no
time to react. The crash was unbelievable... the wacky GPL crash model
at work again. I'll post the biff on my site soon.

--dave

um yeah - that might have been the race I was in (first VROC race for
me). Qualified fifth on outside row, I was sure there was gonna be a
pile up so moved half onto the grass, didn't matter - someone hit me
from behind, but that didn't matter either cos the first row had already
piled up anyway. Finished first lap sixth then everyone behind me
dropped out. Are people only racing to win and if they don't get a good
start then they disconnect? :(
It wouldn;t matter to me where I was in the race as long as i was racing
with another player - finishing up the order is just a bonus.

Good point, I was driving within myself to try and stay online, it
didn't work due to inexperience of cold tyres/heavier fuel load at the
Glen, but I still had fun for a few laps

c ya on VROC
--
Mike Buckley    
Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd
Tel: 44 (0)1472 371591  Fax: 44 (0)1472 371208

As to your main point, don't worry - the AI drivers are too fast at some
points on the circuit and too slow at others, it usually evens out to a good
lap time. They are wickedly fast into and thru Lesmo 1 and Parabolica, but
slow into Curva Grande. The same applies at many other circuits - you really
notice it at the 'Ring where you can get stuck behind a normally quick
driver for a long section.

- Michael

Heck, they usually don't make it to turn 1 at Monza!  Some hotfoot with
cold tires is slithering from side to side like a snake on a hot tin
roof, taking out 3/4's of the field before they can get to the braking
point of turn 1.  I think we need to have a means of checking the vision
and color blindness of drivers that sign up on VROC.  Many of them seem
to see the green flag as a black and white checkered flag.  All I can
say is that it is better now than it was when VROC first started, but on
the starts, not a whole lot better.  But, even in some of the closed
leagues, these incidents still happen.  However, thankfully they aren't
as often.

%     Why practice for 20-30 min only to be wiped out before the 1st lap
% is over. And your idea of moving off line doesn't work often. I
% know,'cause I try it all the time.

Unfortunately, at most tracks with everyone going bananas on the starts
the only place that can be considered offline is in the pits. :-(  But
moving off line (well in advance so as to telegraph your intentions to
the hotheaded pursuer) can work well after the 1st lap melee.  And I
agree with you that it is the "overtaker's" responsibility to judge the
driving abilities and styles of the overtakee (this includes lapping
situations).  This is even more important as there is almost always new
"talent" on the track at most VROC events.

I almost think that we need to have some VROC sessions that are mostly
"practice" starts.  For every 100 laps someone puts in on a track, they
may only do 1-2 standing starts with a grid of cars.  Maybe the hosts
should announce a password after the number of drivers have shown up.
Move the race to the passworded room and run 4-5 practice starts (just
force the race with random grid).  Force the drivers to practice the
starts with a full grid.  Then they can reset and allow for 15-20
minutes of practice/qualifying.

<snip>

%     My point is that I'm by no means fast,just consistent. Many a Lotus
% driver has complained that I brake to early for them. But trying to
% brake as late as a Lotus,constantly puts me into the woods. It's their
% responsibility to drive around you,not through you. Unfortunately,this
% isn't the case very often.

While we are ranting/venting...  Every Monday night, a small group of us
like to run some open VROC races.  We have been making them open to all.
But last Monday night may have been the last such open event.  Why?
Because too many drivers showed up that had no respect for others on the
track.  We are racing for fun, but we take this fun seriously.  And for
once, it wasn't Lotus drivers causing all the problems.  The first event
was at Monaco (yeh, I know a tough track to race online).  I would say
about 80% of those connected (15 in total), were driving sanely during
practice.  However, there were a few Beavis & Buttheads out there that
totally ignored anyone else on the track.  One was driving a Coventry
and was bouncing off the walls as if in a pinball game.  He was making
good time, and the Coventry is built like a tank and could take the
abuse.  However, during these little bumper shoots, one could easily
slip by as he was peeling himself off the Armco.  But, the idiot would
gather it back up and try to get back around in the next turn and
totally shunt you out of the way to do it.  Needless to say, it only
took 2 or 3 such drivers to ruin it for the others.  I had some drivers
who just disconnected and gave up.  We won't even talk about the start
where one driver (coulda been the same idiot) had a bad start off the
grid, but decided he could make up for it by making a mad dash to the
first turn and ended up taking out all but the leader.

On the other hand, we also had some very gracious and concientious
drivers out there on the track.  Ones that would move out of the way
during practice to allow faster cars to pass, or until they could get
their car back under control.  To all of you drivers (fast or slow) who
drive with this awareness of others on the track, a big THANKS!  You are
why racing on VROC is still fun. . .

Next round we tried Mexico.... You guessed it the same type of rotten
apples showed up....

I gave up hosting and decided to join a Monza race...  Same type of
behavior persisted there.  It was sorta like since there isn't any
Monday Night Football now, some jocks decided they needed to recreate it
on VROC that night.  Oh, and how well did I do?  Managed to work my way
through the carnage at Monaco to finish 2nd and finished 1st at Mexico,
got disco'd as I tried to hang onto 3rd with a Honda at Monza....

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% Try that on some 1:27's Monza guy and all you'll be doing in Parabolica is waving
% him goodbye...

Which is what one should be doing. :-)  If you aren't running in the
1:27's and someone is barreling up on you, don't go out of your way to
take both of you out....  Let them by and continue on your merry way...
Trying to block a driver that is definately much faster than you is not
clean racing or even sportsmanship.  Now, don't get me wrong.  I see
nothing wrong about making one's car as wide as possible to keep a
marginally faster car behind you.  But, if you are watching your
mirrors, you can tell whether the guy making the passing attempt is much
faster than you.

% Really, brake as late as you can, as hard as you can and make sure you don't
% fight the car
% in the corner (or drift wide for that matter). As a matter a fact, try to drift
% as little as possible.
% IMO when drifting you scrubb off speed.

Actually drifting to scrub off speed is part of the trick to running in
late and hard going into a turn.  The scrubbing of speed is how you can
manage to brake so late and still make it through the turn with good
speed.  

% >
% > % In addition to Ian's words, a Jim Clark tip:
% >
% > % "Some people brake so late, in fact too late, so they brake too
% > % much...it's better to brake eariler and less, helps to keep the speed
% > % up.."
% >
% > This is all too true.  I have done my share of VROC racing and the one
% > place I see this happening all the time is at Monza going into the first
% > Lesmo.  This and the Parabolica are the 2 places people seem to want to
% > try late/heavy braking.  I like to take these nice and easy.  Most
% > people who barrel into the 1st Lesmo, end up losing too much speed
% > getting through the turn and slip too far to the outside early.  It's a
% > piece of cake to let them barrel in and slip by nice and easy on the
% > inside and beat them to the 2nd Lesmo.  The same holds true for the
% > Parabolica.  Anytime I see anyone flying in my mirrors to this corner, I
% > just brake slow and easy, letting them fly by and then pass them on the
% > inside, while they fight to keep their car on the track.
% >
% > --
% > **************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
% >      Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

% > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Actually, since reverting my AI ini file to Papy's original settings, I
have had no problems with any bad driving from the AI.  Sure they make
the occasional mistake, but that's part of the fun and realism.

Dave Ewing

--
   _____
 /_______\              .\\ a t t h e a d
I  XT /~~~~                    
I  500\_____       1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro
 \____/\__I_I      http://matthead.home.pages.de/

I really did mean 2 seconds later... some people just don't pay attention
in the races! I can be a whole straightaway ahead of them, but as soon as
I brake early, wham, they hit me ;)

I'm one of those slower computer/driver people you read about in the
tabloids, but I try to be very courteous out there (maybe I'm more
gentlemanly cuz I'm a lady?), and I will always let the obviously faster
car go on by me...

And if Surtees is behind you at Nurburgring, you have two choices:
1.    Let him past
2.    Say your prayers

I had some pretty bad PRO open races last week.  10 starters and only 2
finishers.
Thats why I'm hosting passworded (PRC) races exclusively now.  If there are only
5 PRC drivers there is a 95% chance we will all finish the race -- and have some
great battles to boot.

Jason.

Except if some ***head actually is too tired to race. Sorry Tim! :-(
Geez, what a brain fade I had on that Monza race. I believe Tim had no
damage, but I feel bad anyway. Sorry again.

Remco