rec.autos.simulators

by **David Spark** » Thu, 30 May 1996 04:00:00

I've been hearing lots of good things that are coming in NASCAR 2.0. My
suggestions:

1. Double file restarts. We heard that _maybe_ this would make it into 2.0.
I think it's an important feature for multiplayer.

2. Correct caution line rules. Cars that reach the end of pit road after
the pace car should have to wait for the end of the caution line. It's
really annoying to have a backmarker squeeze into the caution line right
behind the pace car.

3. Better pitstop setups. I'd like to be able to setup my first pit stop
before either before I start the race. I have a pretty good idea when I'm
going to pit if the race stays green, so why not set it up ahead of time?
Also, you should be able to set the fuel level below the amount of fuel in
your tank. If you pit and you have more fuel onboard than requested, just
don't add any fuel to the tank.

4. More flexibility in keyboard mapping. In particular, the autochat
messages are a pain as Ctrl-Fn keys (ever try taking a corner with a yoke
and hitting Ctrl-F6 on a 101 keyboard?) I would like to be able to assign
them to the 1-9 keys, and put the graphics setup keys (which I use much
less frequently) on the Ctrl-Fn keys.

5. Move the options submenu so we can get to it during a modem race. It's a
pain to have to re-dial to change the AI opponent strength or turn
pace/yellow/damage on/off during a modem race.

6. Multiplayer mechanic/spotter. This is something I've been thinking since
my first modem race that required a pit stop. In single player, I would
just pause the game to set up my pit stops, but you can't do this when
modem racing. In multiplayer, it would be great to be able to have someone
dial in as your mechanic/spotter. This person would be able to follow your
car around the track using the camera angles (blimp would probably be best)
and tell you about traffic in your immediate area. They would also be able
to see your gauges and fuel/lap display screens so they could set up your
pit stop for you. Messages would be private between the driver and the
mechanic/spotter. Obviously, not too many people will do this while it's LD
to Hawaii, but once it becomes cheap, I could see teaming up with people
and trading off as spotter for each other.

That's a start. I'm sure I'll come up with more as time goes on.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

by **Alan J. Claff** » Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Since David came up with some good ideas to implement into the next
generation NASCAR sim, I only have one more to add:

One thing I am frustrated by in the current sim is when an AI car
crashes, come back to the track sans front end sheet metal or rear
spoiler, and the darn thing still keeps up with the pack of undamaged
cars.

Typically when a real stock car is damaged like that in a wreck, and
returns to the track after lengthy repairs such as removing damaged
sheet metal, its speed is greatly reduced and the car winds up going
many laps down. The way the sim is now a damaged AI car will lose
some laps in the pits and then it's back to regular cruising speed.
This is not realistic.

How 'bout it guys? Can it be done? Do we have the technology?

I'm off to NHIS.

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by **Banfi Fol** » Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Actually, I've seen many times cars that were damaged in wrecks (ok, cars
I had damaged provoking a wreck) turn slower laps than the faster cars.
On the other hand, I've seen my car lose only 1 mph after having some
sheetmetal removed. I think the physics model is a little bit weak here, but
I don't think they can ask a WC team to wreck a car so that they can see
how it handles in that situation...

Folco

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by **David Spark** » Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:00:00

>One thing I am frustrated by in the current sim is when an AI car
>crashes, come back to the track sans front end sheet metal or rear
>spoiler, and the darn thing still keeps up with the pack of undamaged
>cars.

I'm with you on this one. Last night we were modem racing Dover. There was
a car in front of me that had no rear deck. I got under it in the turn, we
both hit the throttle at the same time, and it rocketed off the turn in
front of me. With no rear spoiler, applying that much acceleration, it
should've spun like a top.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

by **Eldred Picke** » Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:00:00

>Subject: Re: NASCAR 2.0 Requests
>Date: 31 May 1996 15:58:56 GMT

>>One thing I am frustrated by in the current sim is when an AI car
>>crashes, come back to the track sans front end sheet metal or rear
>>spoiler, and the darn thing still keeps up with the pack of undamaged
>>cars.
>I'm with you on this one. Last night we were modem racing Dover. There was
>a car in front of me that had no rear deck. I got under it in the turn, we
>both hit the throttle at the same time, and it rocketed off the turn in
>front of me. With no rear spoiler, applying that much acceleration, it
>should've spun like a top.
>Dave "davids" Sparks
>Sequoia Motorsports

Do the AI cars behave this way in ICR2, also? I haven't gotten good enough to
TRY to pass anybody yet<g>.

________

Eldred Pickett

I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

by **Mike Carrother** » Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:00:00

>>One thing I am frustrated by in the current sim is when an AI car
>>crashes, come back to the track sans front end sheet metal or rear
>>spoiler, and the darn thing still keeps up with the pack of undamaged
>>cars.

>I'm with you on this one. Last night we were modem racing Dover. There
was
>a car in front of me that had no rear deck. I got under it in the
turn, we
>both hit the throttle at the same time, and it rocketed off the turn
in
>front of me. With no rear spoiler, applying that much acceleration, it
>should've spun like a top.

>Dave "davids" Sparks
>Sequoia Motorsports

Dave-

I saw this too last night, and was amaized. Then I remembered that
damage was set to off, but the cars still looked damaged.

I think we might have been in the same race.

Mike (Parnelli)

by **David Marti** » Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:00:00

> 2. Correct caution line rules. Cars that reach the end of pit road after
> the pace car should have to wait for the end of the caution line. It's
> really annoying to have a backmarker squeeze into the caution line right
> behind the pace car.

Actaully, if a backmarker chooses not to pit, he'll be there anyway. But yes, I agree. I think that you should be
held up or, at least told who to get behind. The problem with this ONLINE is that the field doesn't bunch up very
well without accidents. The AI can do it, but in multiplayer it is very difficult. If you require cars to be held
up, you must allow better pit stall selection. It is very hard to judge when to tell your crew to stop repairing if
you have to drive 55 down pit road. They could still beat you to the end, and then you would have wasted alot of
time.

I agree, these should not require the Ctrl key. So I don't use them at all.

A better suggestion is your #6 below. Your mech/spot would be able to announce when you are leaving the pits, etc,
and you wouldn't have to deal with it. But this is too involved for Papyrus to release anytime soon. I think that
the spotter information that Papyrus provides about accidents and such could be improved and supplemented. I also
feel that not all spotter messages would have to be broadcasted to the entire field. Messages about leaving the pits
should only be broadcasted to cars on the straightaway approaching the slow car. These messages could be automated
by the server, tripped by a car passing the first pit stall. Intentions about entering the pits could not be done by
the server.

In the meantime, the best suggestion would be to have a spotter sitting next to you in front of your own computer.
They could keep an eye on the F2 Display and let you know if you are approaching a slow car. I've found that it is
next to impossible to get dynamic info from F2 while negotiating traffic. You can only get static info. Your
spotter doesn't have to look at the track, he can concentrate on the F2 display and set up your pit stops. The blimp
view would be nice, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Communication between spotter and driver would almost require that they be in the same room. Maybe Papyrus could
figure a way to connect 2 computers together using direct connections. Then one makes the phone call and the other
gets it's info from the calling machine. Since both machines would have independent processors and the second one
wouldn't have to be a fast one (maybe that 386 sitting in the corner that you replaced with the Pentium you drive
with), the overhead involved would be minimized.

Switching off between 2 people, spotting for someone and then driving with them as a spotter would be a superb way to
improve your driving skills. Of course, a friend like that would probably be running in the same league with you and
that wouldn't work. :-)

David Martin
IVL Series Director
Hawaii dgm26sam
IVGA 3838

by **David Spark** » Sun, 02 Jun 1996 04:00:00

>>>One thing I am frustrated by in the current sim is when an AI car
>>>crashes, come back to the track sans front end sheet metal or rear
>>>spoiler, and the darn thing still keeps up with the pack of undamaged
>>>cars.

>Do the AI cars behave this way in ICR2, also? I haven't gotten good enough
>to TRY to pass anybody yet<g>.

I don't think this is an issue in ICR2. Indycars don't take to bumping into
things all that well. Anything more serious than a bent or broken wing, and
you're probably through for the day. Wings take a few seconds to replace,
with no ill effect on the car handling.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

by **David Spark** » Sun, 02 Jun 1996 04:00:00

>I saw this too last night, and was amaized. Then I remembered that
>damage was set to off, but the cars still looked damaged.

>I think we might have been in the same race.

Nope, this wasn't a Hawaii race, just two of us racing on a modem, and the
car with no rear deck was an AI car. So you couldn't have been in the race,
unless you had my phone phone tapped. <G>

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

by **Shane Metzge** » Sun, 02 Jun 1996 04:00:00

> >>>One thing I am frustrated by in the current sim is when an AI car
> >>>crashes, come back to the track sans front end sheet metal or rear
> >>>spoiler, and the darn thing still keeps up with the pack of undamaged
> >>>cars.

> >Do the AI cars behave this way in ICR2, also? I haven't gotten good enough
> >to TRY to pass anybody yet<g>.

> I don't think this is an issue in ICR2. Indycars don't take to bumping into
> things all that well. Anything more serious than a bent or broken wing, and
> you're probably through for the day. Wings take a few seconds to replace,
> with no ill effect on the car handling.

> Dave "davids" Sparks
> Sequoia Motorsports

Davids you are wrong there, at least for "your" car. I have
played ICR2 alot more than Nascar so I am aware how my car handles. If
you bang your wing pretty good and go back out it really effects your
cars handling. I usually get a pretty godd push after the wing is
replaced. Usually it throws u off the pace of the AI cars. As far as the
AI cars I havnt noticed whether they slow down but I will pay attention
and get back to you.
jacques

by **David Spark** » Sun, 02 Jun 1996 04:00:00

> Davids you are wrong there, at least for "your" car. I have
>played ICR2 alot more than Nascar so I am aware how my car handles. If
>you bang your wing pretty good and go back out it really effects your
>cars handling. I usually get a pretty godd push after the wing is
>replaced. Usually it throws u off the pace of the AI cars. As far as the
>AI cars I havnt noticed whether they slow down but I will pay attention
>and get back to you.

Well, I'll have to defer to the expert, I don't have a lot of seat time in
ICR2. My own experience has been that after the wing is replaced, I don't
notice any handling difference, other than the usual cold tire problems,
which go away after a few minutes at speed.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports