rec.autos.simulators

by **Eldre** » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

I joined an F3 race at Spa last night. I was willing to try the 'close racing'
everyone says happens in an F3 race. Didn't happen. These guys took off and
disappeared in the distance. Even the ones that I passed because they spun off
flew by like I was standing still. I couldn't even keep the draft. Spa is one
boring ass track to drive around by yourself at 120mph. On the plus side, I
could get through Masta flat-out. :)
On the other hand, I had a blast running last night in an F1 Monza race. I was
driving a Cooper, and found myself lapping a Lotus who must have spun off a
couple of times. We had a very tight battle, including side by side through
several turns. Unfortunately, I threw it away at Parabolica on the second to
last lap. That was MUCH more enjoyable than the previous Spa race. So, what
did I do wrong at Spa(besides be too slow)? I'm willing to give F3 another
chance...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

Hehehe... this cracks me up... another F3 novice trying to make his debut at
one of the "specialist" tracks in F3 racing.

The secret of F3? -At Spa/Monza/2-mile Ovals it's the corner speed vs
rolling drag compromise; at most other tracks it's about driving on the edge
every time, all the time.

F3 racing is about the limitation of the driver, not his connection. When
things go right, it gets very, very tight and very, very satisfying. Oh, did
I mention the F3 crowd being hyper competitive? -You wouldn't believe the
amount of time the top F3 runners spend running the basic trainers. Keeping
in mind most of them would make short work of 90% of F1 runners, their
dedication to F3 is probably the best indication something pretty special is
up down at the bottom end of the top speed scale.

You want close? -How does a 15 car field at Rouen covered by less than 10
seconds for a number of laps before an unfortunate collision detection
glitch caused a bottleneck at the hairpin sound to you?

You want tense? -how's about the 4th placed driver in that same race
whittling away a 4 second gap to 3rd a couple of 10ths at a time and an
ensuing 5 lap battle for 3rd evolving, only being decided in favour of the
attacker because the 3rd placed driver slightly overstepped a curb (forcing
some major corrective action... my heart stopped there, I assure you) after
an attempt to reclame his position on the last lap? -A slight hesitation
(we're talking minor foot-shrinkage here) on my part allowed the other
driver to have a run on me into Scierie on the previous lap.

Take it from me Eldred, fun as F1 may be on occasion, if you shun F3 racing
you're missing out on a lot of adrenaline rushes. F3 racing takes more out
of my than F1 most times, honest.

Ever gone side to side with another driver for an entire lap of The
Glen? -Don't try it at home folks... we're professionals ;-))

Jan.
=---

by **Mike Barlo** » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

>I joined an F3 race at Spa last night. I was willing to try the 'close
racing'
>everyone says happens in an F3 race. Didn't happen. These guys took off
and
>disappeared in the distance. Even the ones that I passed because they spun
off
>flew by like I was standing still. I couldn't even keep the draft. Spa is
one
>boring ass track to drive around by yourself at 120mph. On the plus side,
I
>could get through Masta flat-out. :)
>On the other hand, I had a blast running last night in an F1 Monza race. I
was
>driving a Cooper, and found myself lapping a Lotus who must have spun off a
>couple of times. We had a very tight battle, including side by side
through
>several turns. Unfortunately, I threw it away at Parabolica on the second
to
>last lap. That was MUCH more enjoyable than the previous Spa race. So,
what
>did I do wrong at Spa(besides be too slow)? I'm willing to give F3 another
>chance...

In our league races we are constantly battling in a private F3 News
Group about who's fault it was that took the entire field out on lap 4. We
drive so close that a simple tinny mistake causes the entire field to go
scurrying for cover. Pickup racing is always going to be pickup racing.
There will be slow cars and there will be fast cars and there will be those
that***up and take the field out. In any case, just like F1 and F2
racing, if you don't have a setup with good gearing and just the right
amount of fuel, you'll end up being in the way as the leaders pass you in a
couple laps. Download some setups from Mike Hortons site and find a setup
that feels good to you. Then download all the setups from that driver and
you should be good for all the tracks (+ or - some odd tweaks). I've
joined some F1 and F2 races and still have yet to see a replay where the
cars are as close as our F3 cars are for as long as we are. Also, on
average, the F3 drivers are far more comfortable avoiding accidents then any
of the F1 drivers that I've seen (both in pick up races).
Mike hortons site is at.. http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The only cars to avoid unless you are in a single marquee event are the
Rebco's and the BRM's. Repco's are almost as fast as the F2's (relatively
speaking) and the BRM's are like driving a tank with a VW bug engine. The
others have advantages and disadvantages against each other, but are very
competitive.

Glad you're giving it a second chance! We need more courageous drivers
like your self :-)

by **Kurt Steinboc** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Snip

Spa is one

Eldred, I'm so glad you post here. You're like the voice of "everyman" or
something, with your droll, self-effacing sense of humor.

Your post almost makes me want to climb in an F3 and do some blistering laps
around Spa. Almost.

Regards,

Kurt

by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

I'd even go a little further... regardless whether you take anyone out with
you or not. Make a mistake = you lose. Simple as that. Welcome to the
cut-throat world of F3 racing... like George put it on our ng (BTW: you
think we can let a RAS'er visit there without supervision??<g>) from hero to
zero in consecutive race weekends. ;-))

Jan.
=---

by **Mike Barlo** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

hehe.. For those that don't know, George not only won our Bristol event,
he lapped the field twice! then the next weekend he lost big time. As far
as the question about letting RASers in the NG? I think it was pretty much
open to any F3 driver at the start(?) I'm all for opening it up to the F3
drivers anyhow.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
Mike Barlow
Marketing Director ZGN http://bovineracing.com/zgnews.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------

>I'd even go a little further... regardless whether you take anyone out with
>you or not. Make a mistake = you lose. Simple as that. Welcome to the
>cut-throat world of F3 racing... like George put it on our ng (BTW: you
>think we can let a RAS'er visit there without supervision??<g>) from hero
to
>zero in consecutive race weekends. ;-))

>Jan.
>=---
>Mike Barlow wrote...
>> <snip> In our league races we are constantly battling in a private
>> F3 News Group about who's fault it was that took the entire field
>> out on lap 4. We drive so close that a simple tinny mistake
>> causes the entire field to go scurrying for cover. <Snip>

by **Alan Orto** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Just because they are slow doesn't mean you can step right in and go
fast. F3's require precise control and you really need to carry your
speed out of the corners. But on tracks like Spa you really need a good
setup, there is only a few corners where driver skill can make a
difference. They also have much less grip then a F1 car so it is
something you have to get used to. Just being 1 or 2 mph off out of a
corner will ruin your lap time because it takes so long for a F3 car to
get up to speed.
Talk about close F3 racing. Last night after the Spa race there was 3 of
us going for the win at Darlington. It was real mind games for last few
laps and on the last lap we were side by side through 1,2,3,4 and
juggling positions down the back and front straights and the race was
won by .01 seconds. It was so close no body knew who won. We were even
looking to the side while going over the finish line and we didn't even
have a clue who won. The race was so close latency could of made the
difference between 1st and 2nd. If that was a league race for points
there could have been a 3 month inquiry on who won. :) The 3rd place
driver was so close he could of easily got the victory as well. It was
intense.

> Snip

> Spa is one
> >boring ass track to drive around by yourself at 120mph. On the plus side,
> I
> >could get through Masta flat-out. :)

> Eldred, I'm so glad you post here. You're like the voice of "everyman" or
> something, with your droll, self-effacing sense of humor.

> Your post almost makes me want to climb in an F3 and do some blistering laps
> around Spa. Almost.

> Regards,

> Kurt

by **Eldre** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

>Snip

>Spa is one
>>boring ass track to drive around by yourself at 120mph. On the plus side,
>I
>>could get through Masta flat-out. :)

>Eldred, I'm so glad you post here. You're like the voice of "everyman" or
>something, with your droll, self-effacing sense of humor.

Uh, thanks! But what are you gonna read when I finally find that 'magic
bullet' that grants me speed?<g>
I think that idav's style has me beat, though...

F3 - blistering? Not even in a nuclear blast...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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by **Eldre** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

>Hehehe... this cracks me up... another F3 novice trying to make his debut at
>one of the "specialist" tracks in F3 racing.

Well, it wasn't my debut. I tried a couple of F3 races at Monza and WG a long
time back. I just figured my poor showing was because I didn't know the game
that well. Geez, I tried a few races against the AI in F3 mode - didn't even
make the field 8 out of 10 races...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **ymenar** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Im not sure if they could stand the initial shock! ;)

I lurk there for years, and Im still shocked from time to time!

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Ron Ayto** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Great racing Alan.. !!
The latency factor protest has been lodged and the impending hearing
will decide the eventual winner.... <G>

It's just a damn shame that i can't interest some more Ozzies in this
great class of racing in GPL.
Geordie and myself have to fly the Australian flag in F3. :)
I can honestly say that if it wasn't for F3 racing in GPL on-line, i
would be looking for a new sim. :)

Cheers,
Ron

by **Joel Willstei** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Eldred,

Like you, I decided to give F3 a serious try after sim racing friends
like Ron Ayton, Jake Myers, and Colin Tauber kept on telling me how great
the close racing is. ( I just thought that they were slow trainers ). So I
got on the waiting list for the GMSS F3 league and was lucky enough as an
alternate to get to race. ( We now use 2 servers so that everyone can
race ).

What I found out is that the differences in lap times between the top
and bottom of the grid isn't much different than in either F1 or F2s ( my
personal favorite class). While all the cars use the same 140 hp engine, the
characteristics of each car marque is still used. So the the fastest car is
the Brabham, then the Ferrari, Lotus, and so on. Most use the Ferrari, as
the Brabham is in a class by itself.

So what makes one driver that much faster then the next? Well,
technique is the biggest factor. Then there is setup, you need a much
softer setup for the F3s as it's very important to be able to carry alot
more speed into and through the corners. Back off a little too early or too
much and you loose so much ground to the car you are racing it's not even
funny. In this class, you can't use brake horse power to cover up a driver
error.

What makes the F3s more compatable for side by side racing is simply
that the cars are going slower. Therefore, your computer which is really
guessing where the other cars will be, has a much more acurate model to work
with. Hense, it makes side by side racing a reality, with very little
warping. As well as making it easier for the average racer to react to each
situation.

No one said that running the F3s were any less competitive than any
other class. Quite the opposite is true. As a matter of fact, several of my
f2/3 league members have given up racing F1s and the F2s just to concentrate
on the F3s. And these guys are very fast.

Just don't assume that running the F3s will make you or anyone for that
matter instantly competitive with the cream of the crop. It takes hard
work, plenty of practice, and a really good setup for each track.

Joel Willstein

by **m.seer** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Hehe Franc.
Guess who just showed up this week bearing the number #33 on his car <G>

MS

> > (BTW: you
> > think we can let a RAS'er visit there without supervision??<g>)

> Im not sure if they could stand the initial shock! ;)

> I lurk there for years, and Im still shocked from time to time!

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.WeRace.net
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **m.seer** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Hmm. And here was I, thinking that you was an honorary Irishman Ron :-\

Mark Seery (GPL F3 Irish National champion) <G>

by **Joel Willstei** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Ron,

That sim is coming in the form of WSC. But I'm also really looking
forward to DTRs Sprint sim. This one should be a blast.

Joel Willstein

rec.autos.simulators

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?

F3 racing - what's the secret?