rec.autos.simulators

Speculation about Papyrus...

Andi

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Andi » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 06:20:31

They don't, except some 'pretty' pictures.

Andi.


Schoone

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Schoone » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 06:43:49

I'd gladly pay for N2003 for even a few improvements especially if it is the
last in the series.  $40-50 is well worth the enjoyment I get out of it.  if
you don't like it don't buy it.  Everyone said the same thing about N2002
that it was just a patch well once it was out everyone loved it and never
complained.  Good work Papy and I hope this isn't the last we see of you.


> I have to agree with Tim.  In the beginning (and I am one that had NASCAR
and
> NASCAR 2) they really did make a whole new game.  But around the time
after
> NASCAR 2 Papyrus found that magic EA formula which I hate.  Which is just
enough
> change to make them buy it.  It was after Nascar 2 that we then got Nascar
50th,
> Nascar 1999.  And really they all were about the same program with little
> differences and tweaks.  I personally refused to buy Nascar 50th because I
could
> see through their guise.  Then Nascar 3 which was a bigger difference.
Then
> they went with Nascar 3, Legends and Truck series as the staples.  And we
bought
> them.  Then came Nascar  4.  It was going to be the one.  It was much
different
> over 3 and you had to get it.  BUT they screwed it up.  The game was
un-drivable
> and hyper-sensitive.  So like Tim said a few tweaks and viola n2k2.  Now I
had
> NO intention of buying n2k2 because I felt n2k2 should have only been a
patch
> for N4.  But unfortunately I caved to peer pressure.  All my weak
league-mates
> who did not see the guise ran right out and fell for the sucker buy that
Papyrus
> put out.  Now n2k2 is not even a year old and we are already talking about
and
> waiting for n2k3 and that just plays right into the hands of Papy.  They
see
> this and go "HA!  It is going to work.  These suckers will buy it again!"
> Personally I can not believe the number of people that fall for the EA
formula
> of putting out just enough to make it different.  But the problems are the
> consumers and that we are all in the mind set of "I have to be better than
the
> Jones'"  I say Rise UP!  Do NOT buy n2k3!  Send *** emails to Papy!
Tell them
> we want a whole new game or don't bother!

> That's my 2 cents.  Well maybe a penny and a half,
> bif1988


> > OK, I'll try to set you straight...

> > Papryus' Nascar series is highly profitable.  Why?  Because they don't
do
> > the expensive practice of designing a brand new racing game every year.
> > They follow the same guidelines as the successful EA Sports franchise by
> > updating the same product every year and releasing it as such.  Sure,
once
> > every 3-4 years they'll update the engine but the profitability of
adding
> > some features to an existing product and reselling it at full price is
hugh!
> > Take a look at NR2002 for a moment and the differences between it and
the N4
> > program:  A new 2002 car set, three new tracks, a few graphic upgrade
> > options and a tweak here and there to the game engine and viola!, you
have a
> > new product to sell at $39.99 each.  How many of us still just use N4
and
> > haven't bought NR2002 yet?  Probably less than 10% so this strategy
works.
> > When Papy introduces NR2003, they know and we know that we'll rush right
> > down to the store to snatch it up at full price.  (Maybe they'll even
thow
> > in a $5 rebate for current owners for good measure!)

> > -Tim

Doug Elliso

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Doug Elliso » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 07:05:18


> They don't, except some 'pretty' pictures.

> Andi.



> > "real" sims then the West Brothers are the only ones left producing
> > > simulations.

> > I did not know The West Brothers had anything in
> > production....................

To say that nothing will ever appear, to say that it'll be rubbish, to say
that it'll be over prices, a commercial failure - things like that might be
miss-informed - but to say that they dont have anything in production is
just out and out bullshit.

Doug

ymenar

Speculation about Papyrus...

by ymenar » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 07:48:57


> The N2k2 / N2k3 engine is, imho, too valuble for there not to be a follow
on
> product post-Nascar.

True point, just in licensing that game engine they could still
realistically make a profit, if they continue expanding the game engine
(some sort of support to other game developpers).  The potential is just too
much.  I mean this is 10+ years of work by a group of people, creating the
most advanced game engine on the market for racing simulations.  Yes it has
flaws, but it's still way above anything else, even ISI's game engine (at
least 3 years ahead).

'cause it'll never happen? ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

David Butter

Speculation about Papyrus...

by David Butter » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 08:44:34


<snip>

I reckon 99.99, somehow... I don't like those fiddly prices, but
they do seem to work for the sellers. I agree about the ballpark
figure, though - 100 is about the price of a wheel (for most of us),
while - say - 200 just seems silly. It all depends *what you get*
for that 100, though...

--
The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard
(including the Kinlet Park circuit - still in alpha, but driveable)

Idiotic deep-linking restrictions: http://www.dontlink.com

David Butter

Speculation about Papyrus...

by David Butter » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 08:55:16


<snip>
<snip>

Of course, this - outside the dedicated bunch of followers in places
like ras - only really affects the US, as NASCAR games' sales in
Europe (even in the UK, with no language issues and a biggish market
for racing games) are poor to say the least. 90%+ of PC racers here
have no interest whatever in ovals of any kind, so for many of us GPL
was in effect the "last Papyrus racing sim" and, but for that (and
it's a big but, granted) the name would already be fading from the
collective consciousness.

<snip>

That was the case a decade ago with the SNES though, and we came
through that. The major advantage PC people have is that the platform
is always there - okay, so the PlayStation has lasted a long time,
but that's exceptional; imagine if we could only play GPL on a Sega
Saturn or an Atari Jaguar!

But there are grounds for optimism - the F1 games will keep coming,
some bad but some good; and every so often we'll get a "sleeper" that
turns up from nowhere. Live For Speed is the current example of this,
but probably the best example is Rally Trophy, a game that probably
most of us wouldn't have thought could make it commercially. That one
took well under a year from the very first mention here in r.a.s. to
its commercial release (in the UK, anyway). And then there's
GeneRally...

--
The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard
(including the Kinlet Park circuit - still in alpha, but driveable)

Idiotic deep-linking restrictions: http://www.dontlink.com

Jon

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Jon » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:03:46

Ok then,. ah.........who is handling production ?        I thought so, ya
bullshit alright.

Doug Elliso

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Doug Elliso » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:36:34



> > The N2k2 / N2k3 engine is, imho, too valuble for there not to be a
follow
> on
> > product post-Nascar.

> True point, just in licensing that game engine they could still
> realistically make a profit, if they continue expanding the game engine
> (some sort of support to other game developpers).  The potential is just
too
> much.  I mean this is 10+ years of work by a group of people, creating the
> most advanced game engine on the market for racing simulations.  Yes it
has
> flaws, but it's still way above anything else, even ISI's game engine (at
> least 3 years ahead).

I'm not sure if there's scope for it - but they could do the Quake 2 thing
and licence it out -I'm sure.

har har :P

Doug

Doug Elliso

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Doug Elliso » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:11:52


oh dearey me

Doug

jon

Speculation about Papyrus...

by jon » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:25:01

Yeah, as soon as I read that thread about the Greeks outlawing video games,
I knew the antichrist wouldn't be too far behind...



> > Here is my doom and gloom prediction for Papyrus. I don't like it, and
> > I hope I'm wrong, but this is how I feel it'll play out.

> > The corporate loyalty to Papyrus will end the day it fails to turn a
> > profit, and they'll be gone.

> <SNIP>

> Ubisoft shall ride forth on a serpents' back, and
> the eyes shall be red with the *** of living creatures,
> and the *** of Babylon shall rise over the hill of
> e***ment and throughout the land there will be a
> great rubbing of parts....

> And he shall bear a nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed. Not two.
> Or five or seven, but nine, which he shall wield on all
> wretched sinners and that includes you sir, and the horns shall
> be on the head ...

Gerry Aitke

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Gerry Aitke » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 04:50:09


> On Wed, 04 Sep 2002 16:48:02 +0100, Gerry Aitken

> >Ubisoft shall ride forth on a serpents' back, and
> >the eyes shall be red with the *** of living creatures,
> >and the *** of Babylon shall rise over the hill of
> >e***ment and throughout the land there will be a
> >great rubbing of parts....

> >And he shall bear a nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed. Not two.
> >Or five or seven, but nine, which he shall wield on all
> >wretched sinners and that includes you sir, and the horns shall
> >be on the head ...

> Here I was thinking nothing good was going to come of this!
> Thanks for the cheer up.

> PS. I get the *** thing before the chopping, right?

All the ***s you can eat, mate. :)
Tim Mise

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Tim Mise » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:33:32


Well I'm no expert on having and obtaining Nascar rights, but shouldn't papy
just be able to fork over however much it costs for these rights like
they've always done in the past?  The rights have never been exclusive to
just one company so I don't think that would be an issue.  EA, Nascar Heat,
and Papy have had Nascar titles simultaneously so I don't think exclusivity
is relevant.

-Tim

jason moy

Speculation about Papyrus...

by jason moy » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 19:36:20

Sorry for the long quote, but geeze...  how many times can a
development company be blamed for their publisher's marketing
strategy.  Do you really think the guys at Papyrus were sitting around
twiddling their thumbs and going "hey, let's reissue 10 different
versions of Nascar 2!!"  Sierra wanted a new NASCAR title every year,
so Papy delivered.  It's really that simple.

Now it appears that N2k3 is going to be the final culmination of every
NASCAR sim they've done to this point, and while I hate NASCAR and
uninstalled N2k2 months ago, I mightt just because it's going to be
the best racing simulation ever made at the time of its release.
Really, I would be surprised if it weren't a substantial improvement
over N2k2 just as N2k2 was over N4, but regardless when you've hit the
top of the line there's really nowhere to go.

It appears that Papyrus is now being given 100% support from Sierra to
do projects that interest them instead of putting out a NASCAR title
every year, and I don't see how boycotting them as a developer is
going to really help anything.  Sure, don't buy N2k3 if you don't
think the cost is justified or if you're that fanatical then boycott
Sierra,  but don't launch some retarded campaign against a small
development house because they produce the titles that their publisher
asks them for.

Finally, CART SIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason


>I have to agree with Tim.  In the beginning (and I am one that had NASCAR and
>NASCAR 2) they really did make a whole new game.  But around the time after
>NASCAR 2 Papyrus found that magic EA formula which I hate.  Which is just enough
>change to make them buy it.  It was after Nascar 2 that we then got Nascar 50th,
>Nascar 1999.  And really they all were about the same program with little
>differences and tweaks.  I personally refused to buy Nascar 50th because I could
>see through their guise.  Then Nascar 3 which was a bigger difference.  Then
>they went with Nascar 3, Legends and Truck series as the staples.  And we bought
>them.  Then came Nascar  4.  It was going to be the one.  It was much different
>over 3 and you had to get it.  BUT they screwed it up.  The game was un-drivable
>and hyper-sensitive.  So like Tim said a few tweaks and viola n2k2.  Now I had
>NO intention of buying n2k2 because I felt n2k2 should have only been a patch
>for N4.  But unfortunately I caved to peer pressure.  All my weak league-mates
>who did not see the guise ran right out and fell for the sucker buy that Papyrus
>put out.  Now n2k2 is not even a year old and we are already talking about and
>waiting for n2k3 and that just plays right into the hands of Papy.  They see
>this and go "HA!  It is going to work.  These suckers will buy it again!"
>Personally I can not believe the number of people that fall for the EA formula
>of putting out just enough to make it different.  But the problems are the
>consumers and that we are all in the mind set of "I have to be better than the
>Jones'"  I say Rise UP!  Do NOT buy n2k3!  Send *** emails to Papy!  Tell them
>we want a whole new game or don't bother!

>That's my 2 cents.  Well maybe a penny and a half,
>bif1988


>> OK, I'll try to set you straight...

>> Papryus' Nascar series is highly profitable.  Why?  Because they don't do
>> the expensive practice of designing a brand new racing game every year.
>> They follow the same guidelines as the successful EA Sports franchise by
>> updating the same product every year and releasing it as such.  Sure, once
>> every 3-4 years they'll update the engine but the profitability of adding
>> some features to an existing product and reselling it at full price is hugh!
>> Take a look at NR2002 for a moment and the differences between it and the N4
>> program:  A new 2002 car set, three new tracks, a few graphic upgrade
>> options and a tweak here and there to the game engine and viola!, you have a
>> new product to sell at $39.99 each.  How many of us still just use N4 and
>> haven't bought NR2002 yet?  Probably less than 10% so this strategy works.
>> When Papy introduces NR2003, they know and we know that we'll rush right
>> down to the store to snatch it up at full price.  (Maybe they'll even thow
>> in a $5 rebate for current owners for good measure!)

>> -Tim

-----
GPLRank 24.50
N2002Rank -12.995
jason moy

Speculation about Papyrus...

by jason moy » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 19:41:22

On 4 Sep 2002 23:55:16 GMT, David Buttery


>That was the case a decade ago with the SNES though, and we came
>through that. The major advantage PC people have is that the platform
>is always there - okay, so the PlayStation has lasted a long time,
>but that's exceptional; imagine if we could only play GPL on a Sega
>Saturn or an Atari Jaguar!

People have said that computer *** was dead every time a new
console was released, going back at least as far as the Atari 2600
VCS.  I predict that if it does ever happen (which it won't) no one
will care because by that point we'll have Racing Legends and Duke
Nukem Forever.

Jason

-----
GPLRank 24.50
N2002Rank -12.995

Ian Riche

Speculation about Papyrus...

by Ian Riche » Fri, 06 Sep 2002 19:48:06



<snip>

Or the universe will have ended..........making the whole point rather
moot.

;-)

Ian
--
Ian Riches
GPL Rank +1.76 Monsters of GPL +284.19


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