>Cool. One MORE thing to worry about.
>Now, WHERE was that provisional...?<g>
Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports
If you hung around here a lot you'd know that Terje is one of the
fastest ICR2 drivers around, and THE fastest on several tracks. Dunno if
he likes Mario Bros., why not?!
Vapourware for some, not for others. I'm really tired of people
defending Papyrus by slagging of GP2 and vice versa. If you think NASCAR
2 is so indefensible that you have to resort to slagging GP2, that's a
bad state of affairs.
Personally I somewhat agree with Terje. NASCAR 2 will be good, because
it's an advance on the current product. But take off the rose-tinted
glasses and ask "How much of an advance is it?". Same physics, same
tracks - the important things are the same. If it was simply the
addition of the spotter, new interface, and faster graphics I wouldn't
buy it.
As it is NASCAR 2 has IPX network play and will be the client for Hawaii
- THOSE reasons alone are enough to make me buy it, but I'd prefer to
see Papyrus eschew the "game every Christmas" philosophy and revamp
their game engine. I'm sure that they would agree that they're reaching
the limits of what they can do with it, and each part cannot now be
upgraded without compromising another.
Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
_________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________
\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | <
/ :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \
/_______:/ \::/ http://www.dcn.ed.ac.uk/pulse/index.htm \::/ \._______\
Kindly crawl back into your hole... and take GP2 with you. I've heard so
much elitist verbal vomit on this product that I'm burned out on it even
before the release.
--
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C H A R L O T T E M O T O R S P E E D W A Y
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//
// Mark McCuen
// Caribou/IverSport #35 Hooters Monte Carlo
___/#D\__/ - __ Papyrus Closed Beta Team (8/95)
[_()_35_()] _ --- ID: markmc
// HCS/ProHCS
// http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Okay! You got me thinking! (uh oh!) How about multiple screen support
allowing the driver to take the first person view, while a second monitor
showed replay views in realtime allowing you to have a real human Crew
Chief/Spotter setting up your pitstops and telling you not to come down
on that #37 car.
I don't know if this would be best accomplished by having a pair of
networked pc's or a multivideo-on-one computer scenario, but it cerainly
would be cool. (I think I should go retain a Hooter Girl right now for
just such a career opportunity!)
--
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C H A R L O T T E M O T O R S P E E D W A Y
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//
// Mark McCuen
// Caribou/IverSport #35 Hooters Monte Carlo
___/#D\__/ - __ Papyrus Closed Beta Team (8/95)
[_()_35_()] _ --- ID: markmc
// HCS/ProHCS
// http://www.katt.com/mmcars.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
ROFL! As team manager, I don't think my wife would approve of that hire. <G>
Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports
The fact is... GP2 probably will be technically better, but Geoff
Crammond has been concentrating on GP2 for a few years now; Papyrus
get constantly hassled about releasing bits and bats and patches for
previous games, as well as the games themselves. Maybe if everyone
backs off Papyrus for a while they'll get down to putting all kinds of
funky tricks in their products! Anyway, if you like F1 you buy GP2, if
you like Nascar you buy Nascar2; you pays your money and you takes
your choice!
Mouthing people off makes you no friends so what's the point? I found
out the hard way, and I've been saved quite a bit of hassle since.
THERE!
Cheers all concerned...
Dave Bowers.
> >Any improvements are welcome, of course. But one shouldn't need
> >to buy a product a second time only to get spotters, a proper race
> >weekend, revamped interface, and some occasional audio messages.
> >And lest not forget IPX support. It sounds like a patch job.
> I don't follow you here. From what I've heard so far, this will be a
> dramatic improvement over the previous version. There was a quote from
> someone that something like 70% of the code is new. You think they should
> give it away?
But I am very glad NCR 2 is in the works. I look forward to buying it. But I
am a fan. To the general gamer NCR 2 will look pretty much like NCR 1.21.
But there are probably enough of us crazed racing sim users to make it all
worthwhile for Papyrus releasing NCR 2, especially with Hawaii up and running.
But in my opinion Papyrus are thinking in too small increments. One day they
just have to throw all their old ideas out the window and come up with something
new. Really make some noise. Crammond is about to do that with GP2. The downside
is that it takes very long time and a lot of resources in addtion to a healthy
bank balance to be successful. At the pace Papyrus are going we will not get
NASCAR 3D until at least one year after GP2, probably even as much as two years.
But Papyrus have really been pioneers in the multi-player business. Every
game developer has a lot to learn from Papyrus in that respect.
> > writes:
> >....
> >> The physics model will not change (I assume this means from the MULTI.EXE
> >It seems like NASCAR 2 will stick to the 2.5D format. And apparently
> >Papyrus cannot see any reason to improve the physical model.
> >Uhh, rules.
> Of course, you're spewing drivel because nobody in this newsgroup knows what's
> really gonna happen until it actually happens. Besides, if you want arcade
> games, go buy a Sony Playstation or some other sub-moronic machinery of that
Who is "you people", ehh? It doesn't take more than an ant brain to
figure out that GP2 will be amazing compared to everything else that
is out there. When Papyrus tell us that they won't change the physics
for NCR 2, well, then it is pretty obvious that NCR 2 will not be a
huge step forward but rather a comfortable one. Well, that's actually OK since
they are releasing a sim every year, ie we get to see every step toward
the holy grail of racing simulations. You can't say that about Crammond,
et al, who subscribe to the huge-leap-every-three-year model.
Personally, I have a P166 and according to my friend who attended E3 in
Los Angeles a week ago that will do quite well in SVGA with all details
on, maybe except for the occasional track texture depending on the circuit.
I have not directly compared NCR 2 with GP2. See above and you will notice
the fact that I start my claim with "It seems...". Hardly a comparison.
Translation: "Given what we know of GP2 and NCR2 it seems that NCR2 will
be a backmarker compared to GP2."
But Papyrus won't worry at all since NASCAR is a unique product and its
sales will not be heavily affected by GP2 regardless of how good GP2 will
be. In fact all the changes that have been announced for NCR 2 give
me the impression that the fans will have no second thoughts buying it.
For the general gamer, NCR 2 will look a lot like NCR and hence s/he
will probably buy something that is completely new, like GP2.
--
--- Terje Wold Johansen
--- http://www.racesimcentral.net/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.
> I don't follow you here. From what I've heard so far, this will be a
> dramatic improvement over the previous version. There was a quote from
> someone that something like 70% of the code is new. You think they should
> give it away?
Especially if old familiar bugs are discovered you can assume that what
causes these bugs has not been changed. A good example is the teleport bug
which is in ICR1.x, NCR1.21, and finally in ICR2. If that bug is to be
found in NCR2 too, you can bet your mother's pacemaker that the actual
game engine still has some pretty old and corrupt code in it.
But, amzingly enough, I read somewhere(from a beta tester I guess) that
Papyrus don't consider the teleport phenomen a bug!!! Yeah! And why?
It occurs seldomly and doesn't have a distinct reason, anyway, it's still
there after three years.
This is an example of classic Microsoft logic, ie if you cannot solve it,
its a feature. Hence the problem is solved.
--
--- Terje Wold Johansen
--- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.
>Cool. One MORE thing to worry about.
>Now, WHERE was that provisional...?<g>
Gene
> >It seems that technologically speaking GP2 will kick NASCAR 2's ass so
> >***y hard that it will enter the orbit a Uranus instantaneously.
> >That is, if the sequel to ICR1.x, the bug ridden ICR2, is anything to
> >go by.
> Oh c'mon Terje, don't hold back. Tell us what you REALLY think ;)
I don't use undies under these adverse conditions, too much of a mess,
and, indeed, they would be very unpleasant to wear.
In the trenches it's all back to nature, the garb of Adam...
Rock on!
--
--- Terje Wold Johansen
--- http://www.racesimcentral.net/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.
> >>Any improvements are welcome, of course. But one shouldn't need
> >>to buy a product a second time only to get spotters, a proper race
...
> >I don't follow you here. From what I've heard so far, this will be a
> >dramatic improvement over the previous version. There was a quote from
> >someone that something like 70% of the code is new. You think they
> >should give it away?
> Of course! These whiners think because they buy a product once, Papyrus
> should give them updates forever.
It would have been great if Papyrus could explain the difference
between a patch and sequel. The only difference I can come up with
regarding Papyrus is that patches are free and sequels are not.
--
--- Terje Wold Johansen
--- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.
>>>Any improvements are welcome, of course. But one shouldn't need
>>>to buy a product a second time only to get spotters, a proper race
>>>weekend, revamped interface, and some occasional audio messages.
>>>And lest not forget IPX support. It sounds like a patch job.
>>I don't follow you here. From what I've heard so far, this will be a
>>dramatic improvement over the previous version. There was a quote from
>>someone that something like 70% of the code is new. You think they
>should
>>give it away?
>>Dave "davids" Sparks
>>Sequoia Motorsports
>Of course! These whiners think because they buy a product once, Papyrus
>should give them updates forever.
>WAAA
TJ> It would have been great if Papyrus could explain the difference
TJ> between a patch and sequel. The only difference I can come up with
TJ> regarding Papyrus is that patches are free and sequels are not.
There's a slight diference then between Papyrus and Micro$oft then!!!
Cheers!
---
* RM 1.3 U0414 * I'm a fugitive from the law of averages.
