rec.autos.simulators

by **Tom Olive** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:43:35

I didn't read this whole thread so maybe someone covered it, but it was Tony
who told him to go for the win. Jr clearly didn't want to do it. I bought
racecast and listened to the whole thing. They even got in a huge fight
about it afterwards because Jr was pissed. Tony said something like if he
doesn't think he should have tried to make that pass he's totally lost it as
a driver. Then I think it was the spotter came on and said they should clear
this up off the air and that was the last word from anyone. That's why in
the interview Jr was all down and Tony comes running over to talk to him.

Note, just for the record I don't think this is that big of a deal. These
guys (drivers and crew chiefs) are always going at it over something. I've
heard a lot worse than this.

Tom

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:35:03

The lottery is a stupid place to gamble too. :-)

David G Fisher

> > There was no "opportunity" to win..

> You don't "get" opportunities, you create them.

> Sometimes you have to gamble, he did even if his chances were pretty low,
it
> did not work. Simple as that. I mean, it's the same as every ***y
people
> who take a chance at the lottery, no? ;)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:37:18

Especially since they made him stay behind Earnhardt at Talladega with team
orders.....just like F1.

David G Fisher

> Amen to that.

> Tp

> > > Yep. I was wondering about that during the last few laps myself.

> > > Would they . . . . could they . . . . . Nah. Great stuff.

> > > But I'm glad that Michael won. He had the better car and drive on the
> > > night.

> > Yep. Nice to see Mikey get a chance finally for a *real* celebration at
> > Daytona. He deserves it.

> > --

> > Fester

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:37:46

JPM has.....one win.

> > ......I've never seen a "win at all costs" driver
> > have any long term success in racing. Can anyone? C'mon guys!

> Dale Sr. And JPM. :-P

> --

> Fester

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:06:23

The lottery is a stupid place to gamble too. :-)

David G Fisher

> > There was no "opportunity" to win..

> You don't "get" opportunities, you create them.

> Sometimes you have to gamble, he did even if his chances were pretty low,
it
> did not work. Simple as that. I mean, it's the same as every ***y
people
> who take a chance at the lottery, no? ;)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:12:32

MS would beat him just like his brother has done.

David G Fisher

> > Uncle...

> > I think Dale Sr. was anything but a "win at all costs" driver. He was
> > smarter than his contemporaries......and his "unorthodox" methods
appeared
> > to be risky.......but I think he had thought them through enough to know
> > they weren't. Sometimes, when you have someone (particularly in racing)
> who
> > "thinks outside the box"......the establishment looks at their methods
as
> > being flamboyant/risky/cavalier.....when in fact they are nothing but
> plain
> > old innovative. I do agree Montoya fits that label.....of a young
> Earnhardt
> > in an F1 car. He's probably the next F1 champion when Michael is done
> > winning F1 champs.

> i'd like to see them swap cars for a day and see what happens

by **Uncle Feste** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:56:41

> Especially since they made him stay behind Earnhardt at Talladega with team
> orders.....just like F1.

Wrongo. In F1, the *leader* would have to *pull over* & let the 2nd
place driver win. Pay attention. :-)

--

Fester

by **Uncle Feste** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:02:22

> JPM has.....one win.

We're talking mental attitude. Not history 101. Besides, Ferrari
drivers only have a "win if the team will allow me to" attitude. That's
commendable?

--

Fester

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:51:15

As usual this will take a little while to set-up but bear with me...it
might help esplain.

Many Years ago, When Al Unser Jr was young and his Dad was still
racing(for Roger Penske I believe) they came down to the last race of the
season at Miami in a virtual dead heat for the CART championship. Al Sr.
had to finish something like 6th to clinch the title.(I'm going from a very
faded memory so don't sweat the little details) Anyhow, Sr is trailing Jr
and the end of the race is approaching. Penske is on the radio big time
because he sensed that DAD was laying back for his son. Penske reminded Al
Sr that the sponsors paid a-lot of money to see their names on the winning
car, that the team had worked very hard all year(Rick Mears even did testing
when he couldn't walk yet because of foot injuries) and that he was at that
moment a race driver not a father.
Slowly Sr. got the message and closed in and passed his son, getting just
enough points to win the season championship. Jr missed out on what would
have been his first Cart trophy.
How does this apply here? Well they weren't on a SS so there was no
danger of loosing spots if the pass didn't work, but the fact is...the
driver is just the very tip of a large pyramid. Can you demand and receive
100% from those lower down the team/pyramid if they KNOW the driver isn't
gonna try just as hard?
Jr did know better, Jr did know what was going to happen. But Jr also
knew there were hundreds of others who had sweated *** to put him in that
posistion. He owed it to the DEI team to TRY. And what IF the 4th place
car wasn't the Points leader, coasting around for points? What if some
young gun had slipped in behind Rusty...do you think he too would have
stayed put? If Rusty hadn't already hung out his own teammate, then someone
like Ryan Newman would have jumped at the chance to follow the #8 car and
possibly push him to the front.
dave henrie

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:53:07

Everyone makes finishing 6th vs 2nd such a painful result. Heck with
Nascar Scoring he could have tried twice and lost a dozen places and still
not hurt his season very much.
dave henrie

by **Uncle Feste** » Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:52:58

> Everyone makes finishing 6th vs 2nd such a painful result. Heck with
> Nascar Scoring he could have tried twice and lost a dozen places and still
> not hurt his season very much.

Not so much a painful result as it was just a foolish tactical decision.
And showing an immature mental attitude by allowing himself to be
taunted & demeaned into doing what he knew in his heart was not right.

He's a quick learner though. I don't look for repeats.

--

Fester

by **Larr** » Thu, 11 Jul 2002 00:24:04

I fully understand that the difference between 2nd and 6th isn't much in the
grand scheme of things, but that's not been the real argument here :)

-Larry

> > I have to agree with Tom here.

> > Dale KNEW he was the second place car given the circumstances of the
> moment.

> > Sometimes going for the win is not the smart thing to do, and this was
one
> > of them. He just let himself get talked out of what he knew was the
right
> > thing to do.

> > -Larry
> Everyone makes finishing 6th vs 2nd such a painful result. Heck with
> Nascar Scoring he could have tried twice and lost a dozen places and still
> not hurt his season very much.
> dave henrie

by JM » Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:55:47

Doesn't JPM lead RS in the championship right now though?
31pts to 30. Let action speak louder than words, etc.

some other interesting stats:

http://www.dailyf1.com/en/common/stats.shtml

cheers
John

by JM » Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:57:42

Ferrari seem to think so!

;o)

cheers
John

by **Uncle Feste** » Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:12:35

> Doesn't JPM lead RS in the championship right now though?
> 31pts to 30. Let action speak louder than words, etc.

> some other interesting stats:

> http://www.dailyf1.com/en/common/stats.shtml

You mean like Qualifying Battle Teammates (JPM), or Avg Qualifying
Position (JPM), or Pole Positions (JPM), or Fastest Laps (JPM)... Nah,
JPM-bashers refuse to let facts get in the way of their emotional
arguments. Remember: RS has been rubbing JPM's face in it since his
entry into F1.

NOT.

--

Fester

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