rec.autos.simulators

I wrote an e-mail message to Rick G about this a while ago but I think
I've upset him after I wrote the ICR2 demo editor! ;-)

I'm really just after your views.

A lot of people have been comenting on missing tracks, wanting to use
the ICR2 tracks on NASCAR, track editors, etc.

Why don't Papyrus use one common track data format and use a separate
file for lines, braking points, etc?

Using this they could easily ship a track for both NASCAR and ICR2
using XYZ.DAT as the track and scenery data, ICR2XYZ.DAT for ICR
AI data, NASXYZ.DAT for Nascar AI data and a PALLETES.DAT for colour
information.

If they do this, us Europeans who prefer road racing, will have  more
than two tracks to race on in Nascar! ;-)

With regards to problems with licensing etc, why no use other tracks
around the world? You've got a world wide market and I'm sure people
in Australia would love to race around Bathurst and I'd love to do
Donnington and Silverstone.

And if you still have problems, ask a few Nascar and Indycar drivers
to design their own tracks!

As long as their interesting and a challenge who cares if the tracks
are real? I don't!

You've already proved that the sims are realistic and at present they
only represent two series.

I bought the games 'cause I like racing. I don't care what track it
is. I just want to race.

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits

I wrote an e-mail message to Rick G about this a while ago but I think
I've upset him after I wrote the ICR2 demo editor! ;-)
<<<

Not at all. I'm not sure I got the e-mail you refer to; can you send it
again?

Why don't Papyrus use one common track data format and use a separate
file for lines, braking points, etc?
<<<

Because we want to keep making improvements and not be tied down to
old file formats.

And if you still have problems, ask a few Nascar and Indycar drivers
to design their own tracks!
<<<

I've been over this, but I'll say it again. We have no one tool for
creating/editing
tracks. Our current tool set includes about a dozen tools that we use to
create the track.dat file, none of which are well documented or bug free.
It currently takes a 2D-artist and 3D-artist between 4 and 8 months to
create a track from scratch. With the extremely limited market of people
who
would be able/willing to buy any kind of track editing toolkit, we would
have
to charge far more money than those people would be willing to pay. It
isn't
going to happen.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

If I can remember what I wrote!

But surely there isn't that much variation in the data that makes up
the track layout is there? What I ment was to keep the physical track
data separate and put AI and other data relevant to each sim in
separate files.

Ah well, I don't work at Papyrus so I won't question the wisdom.

No, No, No! I didn't mean us the user! I meant as a few *Real* drivers
like Jeff Gordon, Emo Fittipaldi, et al.

I can appreciate it what your aying Rick. I've worked with programming
polygon "world before" so I know how hard it is creating XYZ
co-ordinates, stopping tears and fixing hidden faces!

I'm not sure how well Nascar Racing sold in Europe as in the US but
I'm purely specualting here, that it didn't sell as many copies or if
it did, many people got bored very quickly with it.

Nothing against the game, I know Nascar is a different discipline to
Indycar but for a European market the lack of road courses is probably
a poor area.

Why not suggest the idea at work? You say it takes 4-8 months to
create a track from scratch so if you've got the data already there,
how long would it take to convert them to Nascar format.

I'm only thinking of marketing here. Maybe the bosses will like it.
Hey, you might even be put on the board of directors! ;-)

Cheers Rick!

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits

: I've been over this, but I'll say it again. We have no one tool for
: creating/editing
: tracks. Our current tool set includes about a dozen tools that we use to
: create the track.dat file, none of which are well documented or bug free.
: It currently takes a 2D-artist and 3D-artist between 4 and 8 months to
: create a track from scratch. With the extremely limited market of people
: who
: would be able/willing to buy any kind of track editing toolkit, we would
: have
: to charge far more money than those people would be willing to pay. It
: isn't
: going to happen.

A radical idea, I know, but why don't you just give it to people who
want it, bugs and all, like Bullfrog have offered to do for Hi-Octane?

Re: Having real drivers design tracks.

I don't think the driver or person would need to be able to actually use
the software. Maybe just have the person give the actual artists a
conception of the track and let the artists make it real. For example, the
shape, banking, walls, etc. Also, maybe have the masters at Papyrus design
their own fantasy tracks for a future package. We have the NASCAR tracks,
now give us the option of some new and different tracks for added fun :)

Brad

This is what I said to Rick G. Maybe ask Gordon or Unser to design a
few.

I said to Rick that this could be a good marketing ploy. I mean,
Indycar and Nascar teams don't test at just the tracks in the
champrionships.

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits

Because we don't want to deal with the tech support costs. (And there will
be
such costs, even if we say the tools were unsupported.)

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.