rec.autos.simulators

I'll agree to a certains extent that the preparation has a lot to do with
it - but you have to have something good to start off with.... that doesn't
mean a good road car, it just means the basis of a good race car. I've been
talking race cars all along here - so we may hav been  talking at cross
purposes througout this post !! :-)

I still think its a great road car though - and much less common  than a
Porker - and with its engine in the right place!!! Hah hah :-D

cheers

-Lindsay

What did the Toyota Tacoma have in common with a race car? look what Rod
Millen did to it. Same thing with the Swift

Yeah, but those were pure "silhouette" racers, that have very liveral rules
as to what "prduction based" means. Much of the Viper (and many other good
production based racers - including Prokers!! :-)) is very production based
and the regs are no where near as liberal as those for "silhouette" cars..

-Lindsay

dude look at the taurus in NASCAR, do they look anything like the ones on
the road. no i don't think so...

Auto box?  Don't know which Viper they were testing with an automatic, but
even if it is available (I'm not the kind of guy to memorize option sheets)
I doubt many leave the factory with an auto box.  Not that I like the Viper
much, since it is basically a beautiful concept car with a truck engine and
sub-standard chassis.

Stephen

--
Tim Schuh
***el.net

..and your point is?  Nascar cars (and NHRA funny cars for that matter) ,
became far from production cars a very long time ago (when they started
busting the wheel centres out of the standard production wheels due to
cornereing forces they were starting to generate in the fifties, if I
remember correctly)

The piont I was making was that the Tacoma was made to very liberal (not
liveral - my typing never has been good -much better with a spanner than a
keyboard!! :-)) interpretation of what "production based" means - so are
Nascar cars. In GT2, where the Viper dominates, there is very much more of
the original production car left in the race car.

cheers

-Lindsay

 wrong..the chassis are pretty much different. The thing that remains the
smae is the body. 80% of the chassis is different than the one on the street

/petern

street

I think you'll find that under the fia gt2 rules there is a lot of
modification allowed but not change - and the chassis has to remain intact
and original to that which is homologated

Appendix J Articles 251 & 258....

"Chassis:

The overall structure of the car around which are assembled the mechanical
components and the bodywork including any structural part of the said
structure."

"1.5 Original:

As fitted to the road registered FIA homologated car."

"3.6.1 - Strengthening of the chassis and bodywork is allowed provided that
the material used follows the _original_ shape and is in direct contact with
it." - i.e the ORIGINAL MUST REMAIN

"10.3 Suspension type and mounting (Class 2):

10.3.1 - All suspension components, with the exception of parts specifically
mentioned, must be _original_ equipment supplied by the manufacturer or
homologated. These parts may be strengthened provided the original part can
still be identified."

"10.7 Steering (Class 2):

10.7.1 - All steering components, with the exception of the steering ratio,
must be _original_ equipment supplied by the manufacturer. These parts may
be strengthened provided the original part can still be identified."

transmissons are free as long as they are of the same type as original (2
wheel,rear wheel drive etc) and engine mods are free, but orignal engine
must be retained in the same orientation and possition as original.

so..... whilst 80% of the car may be modified, substantially more than 20%
of the _original_ must remain, and be identifiable as such.

Returning to my original argument - I never claimed that the bog standard
road car was a good race car, what I did say was that it formed the _basis_
of a good race car. What is a good road car is far to subjective a
discussion to enter into! :-D

later

-Lindsay

I think you'll find that under the fia gt2 rules there is a lot of
modification allowed but not change - and the chassis has to remain intact
and original to that which is homologated

Appendix J Articles 251 & 258....

"Chassis:

The overall structure of the car around which are assembled the mechanical
components and the bodywork including any structural part of the said
structure."

"1.5 Original:

As fitted to the road registered FIA homologated car."

"3.6.1 - Strengthening of the chassis and bodywork is allowed provided that
the material used follows the _original_ shape and is in direct contact with
it." - i.e the ORIGINAL MUST REMAIN

"10.3 Suspension type and mounting (Class 2):

10.3.1 - All suspension components, with the exception of parts specifically
mentioned, must be _original_ equipment supplied by the manufacturer or
homologated. These parts may be strengthened provided the original part can
still be identified."

"10.7 Steering (Class 2):

10.7.1 - All steering components, with the exception of the steering ratio,
must be _original_ equipment supplied by the manufacturer. These parts may
be strengthened provided the original part can still be identified."

transmissons are free as long as they are of the same type as original (2
wheel,rear wheel drive etc) and engine mods are free, but orignal engine
must be retained in the same orientation and possition as original.

so..... whilst 80% of the car may be modified, substantially more than 20%
of the _original_ must remain, and be identifiable as such.

Returning to my original argument - I never claimed that the bog standard
road car was a good race car, what I did say was that it formed the _basis_
of a good race car. What is a good road car is far to subjective a
discussion to enter into! :-D

later

-Lindsay

-Larry