rec.autos.simulators

I find it interesting to check the newsgroups and the
GP2 web pages to compare my GP2 times to those on the
net.

However, I almost always find that the people posting
low times are using the keyboard, and hence steering
help. While I can understand someone using keyboard
if that's all the have available, but I find it hard
to believe that none of these people have a $30 analog
joystick or even a $20 digital gamepad.  What's the
fun in playing with a keyboard when you end up
driving around the track in a totally unrealistic
manner when you could have at least the reasonable
feel of the analog joystick control (for those of
us who can't afford or justify a T2, etc)?

I've gotten as low as in the 1:29s at Monza with a
Gravis Analog Pro with no driving aids - and
I know I can get it down to a 1:26 or 1:27,
but these 1:22 times seem out of my reach.

Cheers,

--
Colin Stuckless

Memorial University of Newfoundland

[snip]
: I've gotten as low as in the 1:29s at Monza with a
: Gravis Analog Pro with no driving aids - and
: I know I can get it down to a 1:26 or 1:27,
: but these 1:22 times seem out of my reach.

I also am struggling to a degree.  I've decided to stick with Monza
until I learn some more setup tricks.  I've been able to get down to
1:25.648 (using a T1 & NO driving aids).  Now I am ready to dig deeper
into the Advanced setup.  I tried a few laps with steering help, just to
see the difference.  This makes it way too easy to do hot laps, but makes
it impossible to really simulate driving a F1 car.

Out of curiousity, I also tried a Hotlap setup and found it impossible
to drive without any aids.  I actually did worse than with my setup.  

Until someone starts posting Hotlaps with no aids and for Joystick &
Wheels, everyone will want to work on beating the best times period
(which will always be keyboard w/aids).  Now I'm not knocking
keyboarders.  They have their reasons.  But, if one can afford a
joystick or wheel, this is the only way to go.

There also seems to be 2 major camps when it comes down to all of the
sims.  Those who just work on going fast and those who work on the whole
racing experience.  I for one don't see the joy in just being able to
run the fastest.  I'm looking for speed and handling that will get me
through a 100% race.  While there is something to be gained by
"hotlapping", most of it doesn't translate to racing.  Take a look at Al
Unser, Jr.  He hardly ever qualifies well, but when it comes to race day
watch out!
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On a related note - to all you GP2 web page owners - can you have
different sections for joystick/wheel and keyboard setups, as keyboard
setups are useless for people using analogue control methods.

Here's the setup:

Wings:  06F/01R
Gears:  28,35,42,49,56,65
Brake Bias: 62.000 %F
Anti-roll F:  3000 lbs
Anti-roll R:   100 lbs
                LF    RF    LR    RR
Packers:        40    40    55    55
Fast Bump:       7     7     3     3
Fast Rebound:    4     4     2     2
Slow Bump:      24    24    12    12
Slow Rebound:   16    16     8     8
Spring Rate:  1300  1300   700   700  (lbs)
Ride Height:  20.0  20.0  45.0  45.0  (mm)

I'll also attatch it in .uue format too, as its only little...

Julian
_____________________________________________________________________

                                University of Oxford

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regards,

Marco

Especially on the last lap <g>

Richard

I've managed a 1:23.308 at Monza and a 1:23.792 at Silverstone with a
"wheel" / pedal combo and no steering help or driving aids. It _is_
possible, but it takes a _lot_ of practice, some experimentation with
the set-ups & no social life whatsoever <VBG>

If you would like a copy of my setups for the above circuits, just
drop me an email.

Steering help setups tend to have ridiculous amounts of oversteer.

I've been having a look at the racing scene over on Compuserve & there
are some really quick guys there. One bloke has just posted a
1:15.987 at Hungary (no aids) and there are some incredible times at
Adelaide as well.

There's a lot to be said for both approaches. I find getting a
consistent setup for a race very hard and concentrating for a full
100% race is very difficult. But at the end of the day, all you've
managed is to beat another computer program. With hotlaps, I am not
competing against the PC, but against real humans - all be it in a
rather stilted manner. The ideal would be Hawaii (or a ICR, GP2
variant), but I just can't afford those international calls :(

Richard

Preliminary data from HOF2 strongly supports the view that the fastest
way around a GP2 track is with a wheel and pedals and no helps other
than opposite lock. The keyboard is NOT faster, unlike F1GP.

Using a joystick without steering help is almost certainly doomed to
failure. Lock to lock of a few inches? I think not.

Now it's my turn to call all the people who accused we of the steering
help on club of cheating of cheating themselves, by using opp lock
help. *big grin*

I'll release the data as part of HOF2 at some point in the future.
--

Well I seem to manage.

--
Suck The Goat

: > Using a joystick without steering help is almost certainly doomed to
: > failure. Lock to lock of a few inches? I think not.

those few inches are amplified by the sensitivty decrease with speed option.
its not so impossible, think about it

-------
Carlos Ribas
President
MalSoft
http://www.nol.net/~draconis

Could it be, that people who spend lots of time playing a raceing sim, mostly
spend some money on a wheel ? These guys exercise more than other, and cause
of that, they are faster.

Cheers Thomas
--- Get up, dive down, no problem

Maybe you should ask before speaking against better knowledge ..

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine and does not
            necessarily reflect those of my employer!

Up to now I've raced only at Monza and Monaco, and after tweaking with
the sensitivity values I find the joystick quite confortable. I have
disabled all driving aids, opposite lock included. My best times are
1.22.3 at Monza and 1.17.3 at Monaco - obtained in qualifying, so not
comparable with the ones in HOF2.

I am under the impression that GP2 increases the max lock in tight
corners (like Loews) WRT the one selected in the control options. But I
could be wrong.

Nicola Salmoria

So just think how fast you could be with a wheel..... ;)  Whether it's
faster or not, it's more realistic and more fun.

Cheers!
John

PS - Nice time BTW!
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Thanks!

--
Henrikki (Hena) Hakkanen               Tel. +358-(9)0-345 5538

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine and does not
            necessarily reflect those of my employer!